The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

Post by luckylion » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 8:59 PM UTC

CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #131

luckylion wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's usually rare though. The largest fascist/ultra far right organization in Germany (by far) are the Turkish Grey Wolves, while ethnic Turks make up about 4% of the population. There are approximately the same amount of ethnic Russians living in Germany, but Russian far right groups aren't known to be relevant in Germany. I grew up with quite a few Turks in Germany, and all but one were extremely nationalistic and…

I don't know anything about Japanese talking about Koreans as vermin, but do know you can hear Chinese talking about Japanese as devils. I think the dictatorial regimes are (at least partly) to blame. They use nationalism and supremacism to make the people forget internal issues.

Post by nickik » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

fakedang wrote: post #127

scythe wrote: post #110

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The general consensus seems to be that the genocide was ordered by the Three Pashas, especially Talaat Pasha, who were the de facto rulers at the time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Pashas https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Circular_on_April_24_1915 None of them survived to see the end of the Turkish Revolution. Ataturk was a mere lieutenant colonel at the outbreak of WWI and did not reach the Caucasus theatre unti…

Yes, this is what I was referring to. The Three Pashas were all military men who very much influenced the Turkish independence movement and modern Turkey itself. The genocide wasn't just limited to the World War though. A lot of significant damage happened between 1919-1923, when the Turkish were fighting for independence. And by 1918, Ataturk was already a general in the Ottoman Army.

Post by joelbluminator » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 5:14 AM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #104

HappyDreamer wrote: post #44

This hate is a bit present, still today. In Stockholm, Sweden, 5 years ago: "Death to the Armenian dogs", said B. Leylani, who was, back then, the vice president of the Turkish National Association of Sweden. The spectators (Turkish extremists?) were cheering. Later he had to resign (there are also, of course, kind and reasonable people in that organization, who don't want any more genocides, and I presume they didn'…

You'll find the same sentiments among Russians, Moroccans, Israelis, Japanese, Serbians... The Germans may be almost unique in that they took full responsibility for the crimes their state committed.

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 5:45 AM UTC

bayindirh wrote: post #108

andrewvc wrote: post #95

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I am sorry for what happened to your family. Armenians did commit some atrocities in response. I don’t condone those. I say this as an Armenian. The scale of those was small in comparison. That does not negate that the genocide happened, in which the Turk’s goal was to obliterate the Armenians as a people. WRT the documents you mention, those are probably from the contemporaneous disinformation campaign on the part o…

Thanks for your sincere reply. Yes, some ugly things have happened after-that, but I see no point in digging these things and stirring up this comment section. We shall leave these behind, and get our very valuable lessons from it. > WRT the documents you mention, those are probably from the contemporaneous disinformation campaign on the part of the govt. I'm not sure. The disc is very old and I only remember the pho…

Post by yesenadam » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 8:35 AM UTC

mbg721 wrote: post #135

enriquto wrote: post #133

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> holding those same people accountable for past state sins. Nobody wants any person to be accountable for past sins of any state. The idea is that the state itself be accountable, which is a very different thing.

> Nobody wants any person to be accountable for past sins of any state. You'd be surprised.