Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge • Hacker News Board

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#131

Post by telotortium » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 2:57 AM UTC

notacoward wrote: post #90

dcolkitt wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most suburban areas, the land malls sit on are worth far more than the structure. There's also a desperate need for housing in most metros. Particularly high density single family homes near the center of town. It's cool to imagine alternate uses for existing malls, but I'm guessing the best thing to do would be to demolish them, then convert the land to small, dense housing developments.

A while back I was hearing about large department stores, especially Sears/Primark, considering conversion to data centers. They're everywhere, so not hard to find one in a desired location, and they usually have good access to relevant kinds of infrastructure (especially power). And sellers who are desperate to wring some money out of them before they literally fall apart. Conversion wouldn't be free, of course, but…

The cloud happened, probably. The big cloud vendors have DCs in rural areas that have access to even cheaper power and unlimited land. I could see some colocations there, perhaps.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#132

Post by hossbeast » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 2:57 AM UTC

JoeDaDude wrote: post #64

First they got rid of the music stores. Then bookstores disappeared. Without them, there is no fun in going to the mall, haven't been to one in ages.

And before that, the arcades.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#133

Post by sk1459 » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 3:00 AM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #100

inopinatus wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Sid Meier thesis of strictly purpose-oriented land-use allocation is pervasive in the postwar urban planning consciousness.

At the professional level, urban planners meet confidentially with developers and figure out how to make projects happen. What you see is what money wants to do. The professional urban planner's job is to generate economic development. Theories live in the academy.

A planner at my firm recently told me, with complete confidence, that on-street parking increases safety. Then I was told that research from AASHTO was just not something this person agreed with, and haven’t I heard of Strong Towns? Here’s a lovely YouTube video.

I wanted to rip my own eyes out.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#134

Post by gyc » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 3:01 AM UTC

shard wrote: post #66

bombcar wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things like this exist in some city centers - but I’ve never seen one in the normal areas malls lurk. The three types usually try to stay some distance from each other unless forced together by exorbitant land prices. The surviving stores that used to be anchor candidates seem to be happy being on their own in a sea of dedicated parking.

In Korea, there is a special term for buildings like that, translating to basically "residential and commercial complex". Most cases are apartment high-rises with the first few floors dedicated to businesses, which can include restaurants, banks, doctor's offices, and private academies. Some are actually attached to malls. These apartments usually command premium prices due to 1. convenience, and 2. being typically o…

I believe the English term is mixed-use building. They do sound pretty darn convenient.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#135

Post by cageface » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 3:02 AM UTC

smoovb wrote: post #128

cageface wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Malls here in Bangkok are crowded, vibrant places. I think it makes a big difference that most of them are directly accessible from train system.

Air-con. Sometimes you're just forced out of the heat into a mall.

This would be a factor in most of the USA too so it’s definitely not just that.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#136

Post by wombatpm » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 3:03 AM UTC

treeman79 wrote: post #56

wil421 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The more popular new shopping areas I’ve been are outdoor “malls”. Shopping mixed with outdoors, and as you said greenery, art, music and novelties. A lot of indoor malls are dying. I can remember when the same empty places exploded in the 90s.

Lots of parts of the country have unpleasant weather much of the year.

That was the impetus for Minnesota to enclose Brookdale Mall in Brooklyn Center (1962), and Southdale in Edina MN (1956 and back drop for the movie Mall Rats).

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#137

Post by Spooky23 » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 3:04 AM UTC

emkoemko wrote: post #107

is this a American thing? here in Canada malls are doing well and we keep building even more sometimes next to busy malls... its strange even they tell us Toys R Us is gone? yet they are not closed here basically all the malls have a Toys R Us.. whats up with the states?

They overbuilt 20-30 years ago and buildings are designed to go 20-30 years between major capital expenditure. A big part of that business is syndicating and selling tax write offs... no capital investment breaks that.

So now malls are facing envelopement from discount stores and big box, plus the ever growing threat of Amazon and other e-commerce.

The malls that get investment are pivoting to supermarket anchors and entertainment.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#138

Post by SgtBastard » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 3:12 AM UTC

randmeerkat wrote: post #127

jonny_eh wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that's left is GameStop, and it sucks.

Their stonk says otherwise.

We like the stonk

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#139

Post by wombatpm » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 3:12 AM UTC

emkoemko wrote: post #104

BariumBlue wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure that "Malls are dying" is large part negativity bias - cities don't get "too crowded" with malls, so we never experience having "too many" of them, but we DO experience having them close down. A mall closing down will stick out much more to a person than a new one coming up. It doesn't help that malls are practically designed to get old and decrepit - malls are built to a completed state - once one is bui…

where? here our malls have gotten massive updates, expansions and renovations over the years, not one is closed that would be a waste of a busy business...

Back in the 80's the last new mall was built in an 30 mile area that had 8 malls. Only 3 remain, the rest have been torn down. Ironically, that last mall built was the third one torn down.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#140

Post by sk1459 » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 3:12 AM UTC

emkoemko wrote: post #107

is this a American thing? here in Canada malls are doing well and we keep building even more sometimes next to busy malls... its strange even they tell us Toys R Us is gone? yet they are not closed here basically all the malls have a Toys R Us.. whats up with the states?

Bain Capital bought Toys R Us with leverage, put the debt on their books and it crushed them. There’s a great write up by Zachary Yost. https://austrian.economicblogs.org/mises-us/2021/yost-proper...

He looks like he could be 12, but I think the quality of his analyses are always excellent.