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Prions

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Re: Prions

#131

Post by vanderZwan »

falcolas wrote: post #10
purpleflame1257 wrote: post #3

Counterpoint: The Fore people of NZ had kuru from ritual cannibalism. Then they stopped. Eventually, the disease stopped too. Prions are nasty, but we've had 3.5 billion years of protein folding and none of it has ended the world yet.

Globalization is a fairly new thing (on the 3.5B year timescale at least), allowing for the spread of any disease quickly. Whereas isolation and evolution has saved us in the past, it might not have the necessary time in the future (imagine if Covid had been even more deadly, for example).

Sure, but this does not in any way favor prions over other options.

Re: Prions

#132

Post by cryptoquick »

SquibblesRedux wrote: post #4

As I read this, cellular automata lurked in the back of my mind. Despite the stochastic details, there is an eerie clockwork marching hiding under the covers of life.

When you put it that way, it sounds oddly poetic.

Re: Prions

#133

Post by kijin »

bb123 wrote: post #101
Scandiravian wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's better arguments than a risk of prion disease for cutting beef (or meat in general) from your diet - not sure if your comment is meant as a joke that I'm not catching, so I'll hold out on going into details unless you're interested :-)

Not meant as joke. I'm aware that there are lots of good reasons for not eating beef, I was wondering if prion exposure risk is one of them, as the meat/no-meat argument is one I try to revaluate regularly as new info comes to light. I eat beef once or twice a week as I have found it hard to get sufficient iron, protein, b12 and enough calories in general without it (and other meats). That and it tastes good, but I'm…

Prion concentration varies greatly from one part of a cow to another, because prions gravitate toward nerve tissue for some reason. The brain is definitely dangerous to eat. So are the eyes, the spinal cord, and parts of the intestines. Muscle tissue on the other hand is said to be much less dangerous. I don't know how much less, though.

Remember that all risks are relative. Just like radiation, there's likely to be a background level of prions in the soil that you can't avoid even if you only eat vegetables. The question is how much prion exposure you can tolerate without having noticeable symptoms within your lifetime.

Re: Prions

#134

Post by gus_massa »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #46
legitster wrote: post #33

Prions are pretty scary, but I think there are a lot of things this article gets wrong. - Prions are resistant to sterilization (since there is nothing to "kill"), but simple soap and water are still highly effective - Prions don't "last forever". They can live in buried carcasses for a few years, but some studies have shown that even our existing sewage treatment processes already break down a lot of prions. - While…

> Most importantly, viruses and bacteria innately "want" to spread. Prions do not have any biological mechanism for their own propagation - they are just an unfortunate mistake of nature. And this seems to be key why there has never been a massive prion outbreak. I disagree here, and but it's not fatal to your argument. Anything that reliably reproduces "wants" to. Hell, I bet prions can evolve too on large enough ti…

The prions are not involved in the formation of new proteins, so it's very^100 difficult that they can evolve to create more efficient versions. [I try to not use "impossible" because life finds a way ...]

Virus instead use their own material as the original to make copies, so any new good or bad variation will be copied in the offspring, and they can evolve.

Re: Prions

#135

Post by wrinkl3 »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #26

> Ancient and odd but relatively easy to talk about, viruses are the perfect vector for the horrors peddled by the BBC, New York Times, and their ilk. Proceeds to peddle the "horrors" of prions.

Yeah I'm not a huge fan of the way the article is written. The concerns are undoubtedly real, but the pearl-clutchy tone and the endless barrage of asides and pop culture references make me doubt the author's conclusions.

Re: Prions

#136

Post by DetroitThrow »

hannasanarion wrote: post #100
enchiridion wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There does not have to be genetic information for evolution. Evolution only requires "descent with modification". DNA is a mechanism for this, but it is not necessarily the only one.

And prions don't have descent with modification. It's a regular mammal brain protein that got accidentally constructed backwards. There's nothing to pass on, nothing to modify.

Err, I think I remember a couple pretty famous articles that contradicts that prions generally don't have descent with modification, which may be what the person above us is referring to:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20044542/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17142317/

Re: Prions

#137

Post by barbazoo »

legitster wrote: post #33

Prions are pretty scary, but I think there are a lot of things this article gets wrong. - Prions are resistant to sterilization (since there is nothing to "kill"), but simple soap and water are still highly effective - Prions don't "last forever". They can live in buried carcasses for a few years, but some studies have shown that even our existing sewage treatment processes already break down a lot of prions. - While…

> I have to imagine that vegans have an incredibly low risk profile for prions.

What do you reckon the risk profile of vegetarians would be? Are prions likely to end up in eggs and milk?

Re: Prions

#139

Post by aeternum »

dnautics wrote: post #9
purpleflame1257 wrote: post #3

Counterpoint: The Fore people of NZ had kuru from ritual cannibalism. Then they stopped. Eventually, the disease stopped too. Prions are nasty, but we've had 3.5 billion years of protein folding and none of it has ended the world yet.

This comment is spot on (I'm a former prion researcher).

What are your thoughts on the risks of AlphaFold and prions?

It seems like prions don't have much chance to evolve/mutate naturally since any change makes them unable to duplicate. However with these simulation systems, are man-made prions a concern?

Re: Prions

#140

Post by shnp »

I came across an article about vaccination against ingested prions a while back.

I couldn't find the exact one that I read a year ago... the one I read talked about a test where the vaccinated mice survived while the unvaccinated mice died quickly.

Prion diseases are scary psychologically because the early stages are almost the same as any other neurodegenerative disease. For those who are suffering from one, who would likely develop some sort of depression early on, really gives them doubts about their lifespan. This is from personal experience.

Here's a bunch of articles about it:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18215090/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17234125/

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-12/nlmc-fsv1217...

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