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For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

timesofisrael.com

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Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#131

Post by nish1500 »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #72
nish1500 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stone age humans are hardly the standard we should be aspiring for. The biggest two arguments for veganism are: 1. The horrific practises of the animal agriculture industry, which looks nothing like a chiseled hunter holding a bow 2. The devastating impact of the above on the environment Cavemen had neither of these issues.

We wouldn’t have those issues either if we would just stop having so many babies.

You'd honestly rather tell people to not have babies rather than swap out their beef burger for a Beyond burger?

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#132

Post by femiagbabiaka »

failwhaleshark wrote: post #130
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are a lot of micronutrients that humans depend on that can be easy to miss out on when you switch to a vegan diet. but this is the case with any "extreme" diet.

Name even one that cannot be sourced except from animals. Micros: - Vitamins: A, B[1,2,3,5,6,7,9,12], C, D, E, K - Minerals: Ca, P, Mg, Na, Cl, K, S - Trace minerals: Fe, Mn, Cu, Zn, I, F, Se Or even macros: - Glucose - Fiber - Lipids - Essential amino acids (EAA's): his, ile, leu, lys, met, phe, thr, trp, val - Conditionally-essential amino acids (CEAA's): arg, cys, gln, gly, pro, tyr Your definition of "extreme" is…

Not dishonest, and not FUD. I'm simply stating the obvious -- we have cultural norms around a balanced omnivore diet that happen to include a lot of these micro and macronutrients. Most people don't even think about it and will only be deficient in a subset of micros. When people swap to veganism or vegetarianism they don't have the same cultural norms to fall back on and struggle to fulfill micro and macronutrients, which results in stories like the one upthread. It doesn't do your cause any favors when you ignore people's suffering from lack of nutrition while trying to swap onto it.

As far as the extreme label goes, any highly restrictive diet is extreme. Veganism, carnivore, keto, etc.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#133

Post by JPKab »

t0mbstone wrote: post #113
JPKab wrote: post #19

My father had a mid-life crisis in the mid 90's, and went from being an avid hunter and fisherman to being a hardcore animal rights vegan. (It was all precipitated by him meeting and dating a woman who worked at PETA) He was about 45 at the time. Within 2 years, his health had markedly declined. There are healthy vegan diets, but his was an unhealthy vegan diet. Despite no history of heart attacks on either his mothe…

Just to throw my own vegan diet anecdote onto the growing pile: Last year I went on a pure vegan diet for about 6 months (after watching the Netflix documentary "Game Changers"). Everything was going well (or so I thought) right up until I woke up one day with abdominal pain. Over the course of an hour, it went from feeling like it could be gas or constipation to being the worst pain I'd ever felt. I was literally wr…

That documentary is rife with inaccuracies as well. It's a consequence of having a bunch of wealthy Hollywood folks convert to veganism, and then jump on board with pushing a diet as the be-all/end-all.

It's one thing to claim (accurately) that a good, careful vegan diet is healthy for a person and very healthy for the planet. It's a whole different ballgame to claim that a healthy vegan diet is nutritionally superior to any and all diets that include any form of animal products, which is essentially what Game Changers claims.

There was a rather entertaining and informative debate about Game Changers between a bad-ass vegan MMA fighter and another nutritional expert on Joe Rogan's podcast, and one thing they both end up acknowledging is that Game Changers is a propaganda film disguised as a documentary.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#134

Post by danr4 »

atarian wrote: post #119
danr4 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I first heard about it on Joe Rogan - Jordan Peterson episode and then Shawn Baker - I'd suggest to hear the latter as he is a an orthopedic surgeon, weight lifter, and is 52 years old. Kinda gives it more credit. The diet is pretty easy depending on how you want to approach. - it's only animal based food (meat, fish, eggs, milk, cheese). I'd be careful with people who try to sell you something, search around on diff…

Thanks, I'll check those out. Sorry to see you get downvoted.

Happy to help. Remember to be careful, everyone's body works differently.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#135

Post by failwhaleshark »

pacomerh wrote: post #81
JPKab wrote: post #19

My father had a mid-life crisis in the mid 90's, and went from being an avid hunter and fisherman to being a hardcore animal rights vegan. (It was all precipitated by him meeting and dating a woman who worked at PETA) He was about 45 at the time. Within 2 years, his health had markedly declined. There are healthy vegan diets, but his was an unhealthy vegan diet. Despite no history of heart attacks on either his mothe…

> My experience dealing with militant vegans is that there is no amount or type of evidence that would convince them that a diet that includes ANY amount of animal products is healthy. You're missing the point here. They're not looking for reasons to think meat is healthy. You're vegan because you're against animal cruelty and harm that is done in the process to animals and our planet. The diet aspect of it, yeah you…

Most people are weak assholes and don't care about animal cruelty so long as they don't see it and they get their Big Mac.

The bigger problems, to them, of meat agriculture should be:

- climate change.

- pandemics: 1918, 2019, and more.

- antibiotic resistance.

- pollution: air, water, and soil.

- resource utilization.

- deforestation.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#136

Post by failwhaleshark »

JPKab wrote: post #106
jelsisi wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with vegans, it seems like most people do lol. I was vegan for about a year, and I found it through self experimentation. I felt much lighter and energetic when I didn't eat meat. I did feel more burnt out mentally though. Through some research I started taking fish oil and feel much better now. Overall I'd say I feel great and would recommend my diet, especially considering my…

He did this when I was 15. I was forced to be vegan as well, since he put the groceries in the house. I was voluntarily a vegan in my early 20s from 2001 to 2005. I too felt far better when I first transitioned to veganism, for several months. Over time, I gradually had a hard time keeping my weight at a normal level, and noticed that I healed slower from physical activity, but supplementation helped with that. The t…

It's easy to have a crappy diet regardless of diet religion. My uncle is a knuckle-dragging idiot who only eats fried meat like sausages, has diverticulosis, obese, and is one step away from colon cancer.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#137

Post by failwhaleshark »

t0mbstone wrote: post #113
JPKab wrote: post #19

My father had a mid-life crisis in the mid 90's, and went from being an avid hunter and fisherman to being a hardcore animal rights vegan. (It was all precipitated by him meeting and dating a woman who worked at PETA) He was about 45 at the time. Within 2 years, his health had markedly declined. There are healthy vegan diets, but his was an unhealthy vegan diet. Despite no history of heart attacks on either his mothe…

Just to throw my own vegan diet anecdote onto the growing pile: Last year I went on a pure vegan diet for about 6 months (after watching the Netflix documentary "Game Changers"). Everything was going well (or so I thought) right up until I woke up one day with abdominal pain. Over the course of an hour, it went from feeling like it could be gas or constipation to being the worst pain I'd ever felt. I was literally wr…

Oxalates are an anti-nutrient. You don't eat a bunch of oxalate-containing foods or Vitamin C like spinach, soy, almonds, or beets, that was your mistake, not the type of diet.

People can give themselves gout from eating foods high in purines. Is that the fault of a carnivorous diet?

It's the same as idiots who go on extreme, no-food fasting diets and give themselves gallstones because they don't have any lipid intake to empty their gallbladders periodically.

People have to know what they're doing and not blame a lifestyle change when it's their fault for not doing it right.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#138

Post by amanaplanacanal »

nish1500 wrote: post #131
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We wouldn’t have those issues either if we would just stop having so many babies.

You'd honestly rather tell people to not have babies rather than swap out their beef burger for a Beyond burger?

Too many people is causing a lot more problems that switching to a beyond burger is not going to solve. Climate change is just one of those problems.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#139

Post by failwhaleshark »

femiagbabiaka wrote: post #132
failwhaleshark wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name even one that cannot be sourced except from animals. Micros: - Vitamins: A, B[1,2,3,5,6,7,9,12], C, D, E, K - Minerals: Ca, P, Mg, Na, Cl, K, S - Trace minerals: Fe, Mn, Cu, Zn, I, F, Se Or even macros: - Glucose - Fiber - Lipids - Essential amino acids (EAA's): his, ile, leu, lys, met, phe, thr, trp, val - Conditionally-essential amino acids (CEAA's): arg, cys, gln, gly, pro, tyr Your definition of "extreme" is…

Not dishonest, and not FUD. I'm simply stating the obvious -- we have cultural norms around a balanced omnivore diet that happen to include a lot of these micro and macronutrients. Most people don't even think about it and will only be deficient in a subset of micros. When people swap to veganism or vegetarianism they don't have the same cultural norms to fall back on and struggle to fulfill micro and macronutrients,…

You still don't get it. Whatever you're going on about is only "obvious" to you. "Cultural norms" are your judgements and your biases. There is no mandate to "suffer" from a "lack of nutrition," millions and millions of people are vegetarian and just fine. I'm one of them. My CBC and vitamin panel came back as 100% normal.

Meat agriculture is killing us slowly like cigarettes and cancer, and kills us quickly.

1918 most likely zoonotic route:

Birds -> pigs (at a "piggery") -> humans.

2019 SARS-CoV-2 most likely zoonotic route:

Bats -("wet market")> humans.

You seem to emphasize edge-case FUD and "other" people who don't agree with your value judgements rather than opening your eyes to meat agriculture as a slow-moving existential threat to our survival like and causing climate change.

It's very unfortunate that you're so narrow-minded.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#140

Post by t0mbstone »

failwhaleshark wrote: post #137
t0mbstone wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to throw my own vegan diet anecdote onto the growing pile: Last year I went on a pure vegan diet for about 6 months (after watching the Netflix documentary "Game Changers"). Everything was going well (or so I thought) right up until I woke up one day with abdominal pain. Over the course of an hour, it went from feeling like it could be gas or constipation to being the worst pain I'd ever felt. I was literally wr…

Oxalates are an anti-nutrient. You don't eat a bunch of oxalate-containing foods or Vitamin C like spinach, soy, almonds, or beets, that was your mistake, not the type of diet. People can give themselves gout from eating foods high in purines. Is that the fault of a carnivorous diet? It's the same as idiots who go on extreme, no-food fasting diets and give themselves gallstones because they don't have any lipid intak…

Yep... It was definitely my fault for doing the vegan diet "wrong", but it was also really easy to do it wrong on accident, which people need to be aware of.

I thought I was doing the right things. I was taking a multivitamin and supplementing my B12 according to common vegan recommendations. Nobody mentioned the possibility of kidney stones though!

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