Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Deno Company

deno.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 446 posts

Re: The Deno Company

#131

Post by cphoover »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #76
kostarelo wrote: post #8

> Extending web programming beyond the browser is not a novel idea. Indeed, we have done that with moderate success in our “Node.js” project. But over a decade later, we find server-side JavaScript hopelessly fragmented, deeply tied to bad infrastructure, and irrevocably ruled by committees without the incentive to innovate. As the browser platform moves forward at a rapid pace, server-side JavaScript has stagnated.…

Ryan Dahl (author of the announcement post) is the creator of Node.js, so I think he's got a right to say these things! Also see "10 things I regret about Node" [0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3BM9TB-8yA

Ryan Dahl left the leadership of the Node.js pretty early in its development. A lot of people can be considered "the creator" of Node.js to be fair.

Re: The Deno Company

#132

Post by bilalq »

celeritascelery wrote: post #85

> Many are more familiar with the Chrome DevTools console than they are with a Unix command-line prompt. More familiar with WebSockets than BSD sockets, MDN than man pages. Bash and Zsh scripts calling into native code will never go away. But JavaScript and TypeScript scripts calling into WebAssembly code will be increasingly common. Many developers, we think, prefer web-first abstraction layers. Every time I read so…

This is a common misconception. Javascript, and the web as a whole, have one of the lowest barriers to entry. You don't need to learn how to use a shell, install a programming language, or anything. You can literally open the developer tools in a browser you already have installed and try playing around with programming. When it comes time to ship, your users already have the runtime ready to go. This low barrier to entry means that many people who are new to software development end up choosing it. Some of these go on to become serious software developers, some learn enough to make a small career in a niche without picking up the skills of a generalist developer, and some keep it as a hobby. There are quite a few people that fall in those last two camps, but there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

I'm a fairly seasoned developer with experience shipping things written in Java, Scala, Ruby, Python, Perl, and JavaScript/TypeScript to large and high traffic systems and services. The tooling and developer experience of working with TypeScript is still the most pleasant I've interacted with. On the UI side, it isn't even close.

Re: The Deno Company

#133

Post by Freknf »

Sounds like total bullshit. Deno hasn't put any dint in nodejs and never will because nobody is rewriting all of their stuff for the new API. It is just that all the scummy founders and rockstars of silicon valley have found that offering higher level services is a great way to scam people of their money because it is the only way the new "average" programmer can even make anything. The only problem is long-term the people using these services will need to find actual programmers.

Re: The Deno Company

#134

Post by BackBlast »

scaladev wrote: post #111
burlesona wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They answered this at the end of the article: “The Deno company hopes to enable the millions of web programmers out there to maximally leverage their craft in other domains.” It takes time to learn an ecosystem, and when people know one ecosystem and not another, most people would rather do high skill, high value work in the ecosystem they know than start over as a noob in a new one. The only thing unique about the w…

> It just exists because JavaScript developers don’t want to learn something new. Are you sure? I started building a desktop application recently. As much as I abhor Electron and refuse to touch anything built on top of it, there basically wasn't any other choice due to the absolutely massive amounts of libraries written for the web. I threw a couple of them in and it saved me at least 90% of work compared to what I…

PWA installs are another way to get onto a system. It's less resource intensive as you leverage the browser already installed on the system.

It doesn't work if you need extensive access to local hardware. But if you're mainly on the network anyway to operate, it's very frictionless and relatively lean.

With my last app, the network asset bundle is about 2MB, uses only ~11 MB on disk on my Mac and ~25MB RAM when running.

Re: The Deno Company

#135

Post by jessaustin »

k1rcher wrote: post #109
bluejekyll wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With WebAssembly, now you don’t have to. You do need a JS shim to load the WebAssembly, but after that, pick your favorite source language that can target wasm.

This is fascinating. As someone who programs primarily in Python, I have been struggling with adapting to a JS-heavy environment in the past several years. I have began utilizing Node + React for frontend use cases but find that my build pipelines become incredibly cluttered and esoteric rather quickly. Am going to explore wasm solutions, thanks :)

As someone who programs primarily in Python, I have been struggling with adapting...

Would you mind providing some more details here? After Python packaging drove me batty for the last time, I wouldn't have described the switch to JS/CS/TS as "struggling"?

With respect to "build pipelines", you don't have to use grunt, gulp, etc. It's totally fine to have regular bash commands in npm scripts.

Re: The Deno Company

#136

Post by zomglings »

colesantiago wrote: post #4

congrats, i guess but not a fan of the VC route, we all know how this ends.

They figured out a way to fund work that they care deeply about.

With respect, and without impugning your right to make this criticism, I find your criticism shallow.

I don't know what your particular circumstances are, but I see your view expounded a lot by developers who are getting their salaries from companies that can afford to pay them because they took VC money in the first place.

We are certainly not entitled to Deno for free (although the MIT license is in their best interests for now). I am glad they found a way to sustain its development for the near future.

Re: The Deno Company

#137

Post by Freknf »

xiaq wrote: post #47
franciscop wrote: post #42

Nice to see! How do they plan to monetize? I either became blind or missed it somehow. The article does say how they DON'T plan on monetize: "Rest assured that Deno will remain MIT licensed. For Deno to grow and be maximally useful, it must remain permissively free. We don’t believe the “open core” business model is right for a programming platform like Deno." There are some hints though: "If you watch our conference…

Sounds to me that they will build some sort of hosted service or maybe PaaS based on the Deno runtime (like AppEngine or AWS lambda), but yeah it's pretty vague.

In other words, capitalise on the decreasing quality of software engineers by offering services to them at a high price because they don't have the ability to make any of these services themselves.

Re: The Deno Company

#138

Post by Freknf »

sublimefire wrote: post #81

Deno makes sense in a variety of situations. The build pipelines of Typescript are excessively complicated and Deno hides that complication away (less dev effort). Furthermore Node has its own maintenance/risk issues in production systems (think permissions), and Deno reduces those with custom built runtimes. I cannot see it replacing Node though. Node has created a vast ecosystem that includes modules (npmjs), clien…

>All in all Javascript interpreter is becoming something like a JVM. Everyone wants to use it but without writing vanilla Javascript.

Except not because lots of people prefer to write JavaScript and those other JVM languages are usually less verbose rather than more verbose.

Re: The Deno Company

#139

Post by threatofrain »

dgellow wrote: post #107
IAmNotAFix wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The web is eating the world because it's the easiest way to ship an application. It has nothing to do with whether developers like to do it or not.

And because web app publishers have full control. If I have a web application, I can update it right now and it will be updated for ALL my users at the same time. No store policies bullshit, no need to somehow notify users that a new version has to be downloaded and installed, no fragmentation of your user base because half of your customers stay at an old version due to whatever reasons out of your reach.

But you don’t get full control, and that’s why people go native. Because platforms rightly distrust web apps. This will likely be true for a long time as security becomes a bigger deal everyday.

Re: The Deno Company

#140

Post by marcosdumay »

lucacasonato wrote: post #14
rukshn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is matter of time until they release a proprietary version which is better than the MIT version. Chrome vs chromium etc

The blog post specifically says that that will not happen

Part of what VC investment means is that this is not his decision to make anymore.
Post reply on HN