Myths About Introverts • Hacker News Board

Re: Myths About Introverts

#131

Post by Psyonic » Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 9:27 PM UTC

rokhayakebe wrote: post #112

dkarl wrote: post #52

Just somebody (presumably an introvert) denying common negative generalizations about introverts without providing any supporting references or analysis. Turns out (thank you, oblique63) it was an off-the-cuff list thought up by someone who read a self-help book and was inspired to "redefine [his] entire life in a new and positive context." Seeing introversion as a preference or identity is fine as long as you have a…

Ok, so I upvoted you, but maaan do you have it wrong. I am the definition of introversion (to myself, avoid crowds, do not need to chat with everyone at the party, content with silence that others think is awkward, definitely do not want to ever be the center of attention, like to be alone with my thoughts ...) "What, you don't want to go to the Nicki Minaj concert?" "Let me explain. You see, I'm an introvert...." I…

If you can approach girls at a club by yourself, you're not shy. That doesn't make sense.

I run marathons, but I'm not athletic. See the contradiction?

Re: Myths About Introverts

#132

Post by Psyonic » Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 9:36 PM UTC

Benjo wrote: post #97

I feel compelled to share my current process of understanding and dealing with my own introversion. Maybe this will resonate with others, maybe not. Where I am right now, it's more important for me to be able to share this than anything else. I ended a relationship recently, partly because we had huge communication issues. Her thoughts were always close to the surface, I tended to think about things for hours before…

Patronizing comments like "Have you had enough quiet time today?" are anything but innocuous. That would be a huge red flag for me that the relationship is unhealthy. There's no reason to tolerate such overt disrespect.

Re: Myths About Introverts

#133

Post by Goladus » Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 9:36 PM UTC

rokhayakebe wrote: post #116

parfe wrote: post #42

This article is nothing more than a chain-mail style bullshit list and it's sad to see it voted up so highly. I suppose it's a nice ego-stroke for all the self described introverts, but most of the "myths" are actually supported by their counter-descriptions. The Original Source appears to be: http://www.carlkingcreative.com/10-myths-about-introverts They hate small talk. Small talk is a social skill. and when meetin…

* I suppose it's a nice ego-stroke for all the self described introverts* No it isn't. My friend of 8 years, and also my roomate for 4 years told me Sunday I was being rude because he had his friends over and I retreated to my quarters. People just do not understand introversion, so it is good to just send them a link like this.

How do you know that the choice you made is a consequence of introversion and not some other reason?

If you can't explain your behavior to your roommate in terms of immediate personal motivations don't expect a generalized explanation to be any more enlightening.

Re: Myths About Introverts

#134

Post by ghaff » Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 9:36 PM UTC

jnhnum1 wrote: post #103

dkarl wrote: post #52

Just somebody (presumably an introvert) denying common negative generalizations about introverts without providing any supporting references or analysis. Turns out (thank you, oblique63) it was an off-the-cuff list thought up by someone who read a self-help book and was inspired to "redefine [his] entire life in a new and positive context." Seeing introversion as a preference or identity is fine as long as you have a…

Of course there are trade-offs to being introverted: No backpacking trip, but also no needing to be around people you don't care about. You can also say that the preference of introversion is inconvenient - the fact that you don't like hanging out with these semi-arbitrary people "prevents" you from having fun. To take that to the extreme, it would be pretty convenient to always be unconditionally happy.

eh. Been backpacking plenty of times by myself (as well as with other people).

EDIT: I do understand it's just an example and there are indeed some activities that need to be done in groups and would often, in practice, be done in groupls of people you don't know or don't know well. But there are also lots of typically multi-person activities that you certainly can do by yourself.

I do lots of solo travel, partially because I'm often traveling solo on business. I find a lot of people cant conceive of heading off by themselves for a weekend or longer, especially in a foreign country.

Re: Myths About Introverts

#135

Post by droz » Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 9:45 PM UTC

sambeau wrote: post #47

I'm often surprised at how many performers are introverts. I have known people who while barely saying a word and make eye contact in close social contact are able to get up on stage and sing, perform and show-off in front of hundreds. A few famous examples: Michael Stipe of R.E.M., George Harrison of The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix.

In college I used to hold study sessions for undergraduates in computer science. One thing I found was that one-on-one interactions were incredibly simple. Bump that up to may 5 or so people, and the mental effort to keep track of each person's reaction became more difficult. Up to about 15, almost impossible to do effectively. But, once I got past 50, it was almost like being up there by yourself. So, I can see how an introverted performer might have a similar experience as the audience grows in size.

Re: Myths About Introverts

#136

Post by genbattle » Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 9:57 PM UTC

Benjo wrote: post #97

I feel compelled to share my current process of understanding and dealing with my own introversion. Maybe this will resonate with others, maybe not. Where I am right now, it's more important for me to be able to share this than anything else. I ended a relationship recently, partly because we had huge communication issues. Her thoughts were always close to the surface, I tended to think about things for hours before…

I think being an introvert is almost a requirement for being an effective programmer. I don't mean to sound like an arrogant asshole by making such a statement. To really be at the top of your game you have to be constantly reading about the latest trends and technologies, working on personal projects, concentrating in a monolithic fashion on the task in front of you. Programming is an antisocial/introverted activity by definition.

That said, there are many different styles of programmer and developer, and there are indeed some types which require lots of regular social interaction. I guess for me there has always been a feeling that programming alienates those who have a deep understanding of the subject from those who don't. I think this is because of the unique mindset required to understand how a computer really works at the low level. As a programmer I can break situations and problems down to variables, data types, logical expressions and conditions. Non-programmers are probably perfectly capable of solving the same problem, but as programmers we often approach such problems in a very specific way.

I would definitely count myself an an introvert, prettymuch exactly as described by the article. Social situations feel awkward and draining, while I am most comfortable in a peaceful and solitary environment. Despite this I still long for meaningful social connections with other people, I just struggle to relate to other people whose interests differ so greatly from my own.

Re: Myths About Introverts

#137

Post by Psyonic » Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 10:03 PM UTC

lss456 wrote: post #111

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you could have come up with a comment that more perfectly illustrated the GP's comments. An introvert trying to understand being an extrovert is like a white guy trying to understand what it's like to be black. It's not who you are, so no amount of pretending is going to give you a true understanding. I'm very much an introvert, but over the years, I've learned that networking is a critical part of bein…

Haha. As a white guy, I perfectly understand how black guys think. For years I tried to become more black, only to discover at a certain point that it's a dysfunctional path that leads to a superficial, seemingly fulfilling but unfocused and non-goal-directed lives. My real point is that anyone who believes they KNOW how anyone else thinks is wrong. It's a very egotistical thought to have that you know so well what a…

What makes you so sure there is really a binary divide between introverts and extroverts? Even if it shows up on tests, whose to say that's not a learned behavior?

Re: Myths About Introverts

#138

Post by Psyonic » Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 10:08 PM UTC

hugh3 wrote: post #80

seabee wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, in which world do all these introverts live where any topic is perfectly OK to talk about at any time? Small talk and social niceties aren't merely hot air, they are tools you can use to assess a person's mood, what they are interested in or comfortable discussing, or even whether it is productive to discuss something at all. Consider it the metadata of conversation. Also consider that conversation is two-…

It also establishes the fundamental fact "This is a friendly conversation". If I walk into my subordinate's office right now and say "Have you finished that graph yet?" then that communicates that I'm really impatient about getting that graph. Which would be fine if I am, but I'm not. If I do that, I'll just make him jumpy and anxious. Instead I'll wander down to his office and start with a "Hey, how's it going?" bef…

Here's the problem with that. After you've done this a few times, we start to associate you saying hi with you asking about some project, and begin to distrust your friendliness. Intentions tend to shine through.

Re: Myths About Introverts

#139

Post by dkarl » Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 10:12 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #110

dkarl wrote: post #52

Just somebody (presumably an introvert) denying common negative generalizations about introverts without providing any supporting references or analysis. Turns out (thank you, oblique63) it was an off-the-cuff list thought up by someone who read a self-help book and was inspired to "redefine [his] entire life in a new and positive context." Seeing introversion as a preference or identity is fine as long as you have a…

Well, at least he's not blaming a withdrawn personality on an actual disorder, like Asperger's. He's just saying that some people may be introverts, with a certain type of personality, and that's it. There's nothing wrong with being a type.

There's nothing wrong with being a type.

That's apparently the real topic of this discussion: whether there's something "wrong" with being an introvert. That's why people are arguing in favor of defining introversion in purely neutral or even purely positive terms, and that's the motivation of the link posted and its source. It's an attempt to paint introversion as a perfectly unproblematic state of being for the introvert. The only people who see a problem with it are extroverts, who just don't get it.

Anything that one-sided is only good for propaganda or cheerleading. If we're going to talk about types and stereotypes, why not be balanced? Why not see things in terms of strengths and weaknesses? There are downsides to introversion, even for the introvert (unless you define away those downsides by changing the meaning of the word.) At some point the introvert will wish he could thrive on the company of others, if only for practical reasons such as the ones I described above. At some point the extrovert, too, will wish he could thrive without the company of others. Pity the extrovert who has to stay home in a quiet house for two weeks tending a sick child! Our "type" or "tendency" or "preference" can be a very inconvenient thing when it conflicts with what we want or need to do.

The problem with strengths and weaknesses is weakness, of course. Nobody wants to admit to it.

Re: Myths About Introverts

#140

Post by andywood » Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 10:14 PM UTC

dkarl wrote: post #85

yelsgib wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are seriously conflating "social anxiety disorder" and "introversion." The idea that a concert would "drain you so much it will be hard to enjoy" or that an introvert would have a tough time interacting with a group long enough to go on a rock climbing trip is essentially saying that an introverted person is somehow handicapped, or pushed to their introversion by a type of mental disorder. I identify as an introv…

You are seriously conflating "social anxiety disorder" and "introversion." The idea that a concert would "drain you so much it will be hard to enjoy" or that an introvert would have a tough time interacting with a group long enough to go on a rock climbing trip is essentially saying that an introverted person is somehow handicapped, or pushed to their introversion by a type of mental disorder. Yep, that's exactly my…

You're still doing it. Introversion is not social anxiety. I am categorically an introvert. I do not suffer in the slightest from social anxiety - I'm perfectly comfortable in crowds and most social situations. What you're doing in this comment and the one above is simply displaying ignorance of what introversion means. And just because most laypeople have an inaccurate idea of what the word "introverted" means does not mean that it doesn't have a fairly well-defined technical meaning.