It's time to build: a New World's Fair • Hacker News Board

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#131

Post by stickfigure » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 10:59 PM UTC

jiofih wrote: post #121

orf wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Borderline indoctrination. You're not pledging commitment to it's "values" and young children are not at an age to have a nuanced discussion or awareness about what those exactly those values are, and make a decision about if they should be declaring a commitment to them or not.

Should everyone wait until their kids turn 18 to start teaching them their own morals and values? You’d just be auctioning their brain to random others who are willing to do that. I think we either have very different concepts of what indoctrination is, or there is much more beyond the pledge itself, and that is where the real issues are?

I believe you missed the parent's point. The Pledge of Allegiance is pretty thin on values, other than "liberty and justice for all" crammed in at the end like an afterthought. Mostly it's "my country and religion, right or wrong".

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#132

Post by godelski » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 11:00 PM UTC

musicale wrote: post #89

Animats wrote: post #73

The last really prophetic world's fair was New York, 1939. That's famous for GM's vision of the future of 1960, the original "Futurerama" . Freeways everywhere. RCA had television. AT&T let you make free long distance calls. All that stuff happened. The 1964 World's Fair had another GM exhibit. Colonization of the Moon. Underwater cities. None of that happened. What could we have in a World's Fair now that looks ahea…

Certainly it's harder to get to Mars, but is the environment more hostile than on the moon? Mars has something of a CO2 atmosphere, and might have more accessible water. The soil may be more usable as well.

Don't forget that you don't have an electric ground

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#133

Post by Aeolun » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 11:01 PM UTC

UncleOxidant wrote: post #118

basch wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very much pro World Fair revival. But I am also very Cold War revival. We should be launching competitive science wars with each other, not unlike the Olympics. Set objectives, set time periods, when the time and objective expire all knowledge gained is pooled and published for the world, for free. National or International propaganda campaigns to recruit for teams. Spies, espionage, moles. Not just a science fa…

> I am also very Cold War revival. Complete with threats of total annihilation? > We should be launching competitive science wars with each other Don't we have this now with competitive global capitalism? I guess it's not the nationstate so much now as the multinational corporation, though, that are the entities competing. I can kind of understand your wish for a Cold War revival - we certainly had more of a sense of…

> But it was driven by fear of the other and I'm not sure that ultimately that's a good motivation.

I agree that a different motivation would be better, but right now we have none, which is worse.

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#134

Post by jiofih » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 11:04 PM UTC

stickfigure wrote: post #131

jiofih wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should everyone wait until their kids turn 18 to start teaching them their own morals and values? You’d just be auctioning their brain to random others who are willing to do that. I think we either have very different concepts of what indoctrination is, or there is much more beyond the pledge itself, and that is where the real issues are?

I believe you missed the parent's point. The Pledge of Allegiance is pretty thin on values, other than "liberty and justice for all" crammed in at the end like an afterthought. Mostly it's "my country and religion, right or wrong".

I don’t see how it reads as an unconditional commitment. It implies that the values of your country are “right” to your (parents) eyes.

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#135

Post by viksit » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 11:14 PM UTC

Maybe what we could do in a much more short term is another "Mother of all Demos" [1], focused on more than just the future of computing technology?

Have calls to action/RFPs, and have a conference of some sort - the goal is to have one cohesive demo per track. Distribute this thinking across the world, like Pioneer.app does instead of consolidating it in one country or geographical area.

And live cast it to everyone.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_of_All_Demos

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#136

Post by _carbyau_ » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

spankalee wrote: post #130

Animats wrote: post #73

The last really prophetic world's fair was New York, 1939. That's famous for GM's vision of the future of 1960, the original "Futurerama" . Freeways everywhere. RCA had television. AT&T let you make free long distance calls. All that stuff happened. The 1964 World's Fair had another GM exhibit. Colonization of the Moon. Underwater cities. None of that happened. What could we have in a World's Fair now that looks ahea…

We have a lot of environmental challenges ahead of us. A forward-thinking World's Fair could paint a picture of how we get from here to a carbon-negative economy: solar & wind, battery tech, autonomous cars and less car-oriented cities, better telepresence, carbon sequestering, architecture, etc.

For me the concept of Solarpunk(as opposed to cyberpunk) is leaning in the right direction that way.

Solarpunk needs a lot of development though. One issue seems to be it too often coincides with someone's idea of a futuristic Utopia.

Hence it is conflict free, rather boring and doesn't do much to stir interest.

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#137

Post by nonford150 » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 11:20 PM UTC

potiuper wrote: post #90

Animats wrote: post #73

The last really prophetic world's fair was New York, 1939. That's famous for GM's vision of the future of 1960, the original "Futurerama" . Freeways everywhere. RCA had television. AT&T let you make free long distance calls. All that stuff happened. The 1964 World's Fair had another GM exhibit. Colonization of the Moon. Underwater cities. None of that happened. What could we have in a World's Fair now that looks ahea…

Build a dome over New Orleans or York; Call it the New Palace. Or to be more optimistic a nuclear plant, maybe Governor's island? or recommission Indian Point, along with district heating.

Agreed with most but finish Shoreham? With all those no show jobs and failed, touched up x-rays, that sounds like a very bad idea.

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#138

Post by nickt » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 11:21 PM UTC

godelski wrote: post #132

musicale wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly it's harder to get to Mars, but is the environment more hostile than on the moon? Mars has something of a CO2 atmosphere, and might have more accessible water. The soil may be more usable as well.

Don't forget that you don't have an electric ground

That’s why in non-American English it’s called earth. :)

I had no idea. Hackaday explains as well as some other things I’d not though about.

https://hackaday.com/2017/08/17/living-on-mars-the-stuff-you...

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#139

Post by colordrops » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 11:21 PM UTC

WaxProlix wrote: post #64

thepasswordis wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US seems to have largely decided that any amount of national pride is something to be ashamed of.

Is that sarcasm? American nationalism and over-the-top expressions of patriotic pride border on the jingoistic.

This thread is a perfect microcosm of the american psyche - two extremes that only see the other side's extremism. There is little measured, nuanced opinion to be had. Both extreme jingoistic nationalism, and shame for any nationalism at all are unhealthy.

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#140

Post by crooked-v » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 11:25 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #73

The last really prophetic world's fair was New York, 1939. That's famous for GM's vision of the future of 1960, the original "Futurerama" . Freeways everywhere. RCA had television. AT&T let you make free long distance calls. All that stuff happened. The 1964 World's Fair had another GM exhibit. Colonization of the Moon. Underwater cities. None of that happened. What could we have in a World's Fair now that looks ahea…

> What could we have in a World's Fair now that looks ahead?

Well, to start with, the massive restructuring of industry and everyday life needed to mitigate or begin reversing the effects of climate change.