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Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#131

Post by edoceo »

mcny wrote: post #118
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> six months I think you may underestimate the system needed. Identity management is the tip of the iceberg: this needs to tie into any future digital currency, income taxes, property ownership, government benefits, and who knows what else. Any off-the-shelf product will need customization. I’m not saying it can’t be done.... it SHOULD be done. But not in 6 months.

>> six months > Identity management is the tip of the iceberg: this needs to tie into any future digital currency, income taxes, property ownership, government benefits, and who knows what else. I'll put my shoe on my head if you can find me a private company that can do this in six months. Previously on HN: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs (technologyreview.com) https://news.y…

Vendors with years of time to build can't even track Cannabis properly. Human are much harder than trees to keep track of.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#132

Post by isodev »

bondarchuk wrote: post #5

Almost every politician wants more power over citizens. That is why a binding popular referendum is necessary in cases like these. Congrats to the Swiss people, I am a little bit jealous.

I don’t think the eID gives the government control over its people... if anything I feel it’s the opposite - one gains the freedom to manage their identity service directly and save some time because it just works across all government/bank/insurance services.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#133

Post by ganstyles »

osrec wrote: post #127
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. In Europe you'll find the likes of Capgemini, Accenture, Cognizant, etc. hovering like flies around government IT projects.

And they keep getting awarded contracts despite their continued poor delivery. I really don't understand how their terrible track record never seems to impact their ability to win more business. I can only assume corruption, but I have no evidence of this.

Their ability to win business is based on their expertise at writing responses to RFPs in a successful way, not in their ability to deliver. Also, they do have a few successful projects, to some standard of success, which they point to in the RFP responses as a "successful" track record. Often the ability to point to an almost perfectly analogous project and writing the responses in the "correct" way is all it takes.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#134

Post by nec4b »

DetroitThrow wrote: post #90
chrisseaton wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are also incredibly xenophobic The Swiss are xenophobic? Eh? They welcome people from all over the world to come together to work towards peace and humanitarianism in their country. They host the only truly international humanitarian organisation in the world. They helped build many of the institutions that try to reduce conflict. Calling them xenophobic is bizarre.

>Calling them xenophobic is bizarre. You don't think the referendums on banning minarets and burqas are... Xenophobic in any form?

Why, do you think it is a human right for men to force women to wear burqas? There are plenty of articles of lately how SF doesn't allow building high rises, which prevents migration and yet nobody calls them xenophobic.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#135

Post by zo1 »

nickez wrote: post #70
esja wrote: post #8

Quite a few people who voted against this did so purely because they didn’t want private companies controlling the system. If the proposal had been for the government to issue and control the identities, it may well have passed.

In Sweden we have a company running the ID system and that works fine. The company is coowned by all the large banks afaik. I was really surprised at how far behind Switzerland is compared to Scandinavia when it comes to digitalisation. Being able to handle my life hassle free online instead of going to physical places (like post office, banks, gov office) is liberating. I also get all my bills digitally and all my r…

If you think that's bad, look at the UK. They had a government-ID system with an ID card, and then they scrapped it. Now people run around using driver's licenses and municipal bills (I guess) to open bank accounts and other things. Utterly backwards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Documents_Act_2010

I've been formulating my thinking around it and I'm starting to think that this is some sort of new-age "luddism" at play, coupled with some odd distrust of government for this particular problem, as if government is trustable elsewhere.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#136

Post by jeffrallen »

101008 wrote: post #66
xiphias2 wrote: post #2

Switzerland has this in its constitution: Article 13: Right to Privacy 1. All persons have the right to receive respect for their private and family life, home, and secrecy of the mails and telecommunications. 2. All persons have the right to be protected against the abuse of personal data. Also the constitution can be only changed by voting.

So taking a screenshot of a Instagram convesation and sharing on Twitter or Facebook or whenever is ilegal and against the constitution?

Yes, and in fact avoiding abuses like this are part of the digital education offered in school. People are also pretty careful about asking for permission before publishing a person's photo.

Swiss discretion is not only a marketing tactic, it is also a good habit many people keep.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#137

Post by brink »

smoe wrote: post #84
max_ wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really admire the swiss political system & culture. It's has all the modern postulates of liberty & governance that most countries are striving for without the "scam orchestration"

As a Swiss, the political system is to me the best aspect about the country. It makes it so, that it is almost impossible for anyone to obtain enough power to really abuse it. It also make any change, for the good or the bad, very very slow, which can be frustrating at times. So if stability is not high up on your list of life’s values it might not be the best place to be.

I'm an American and Switzerland is one of the few countries I really admire for those reasons. I'd love to live there some day if they'd have me.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#138

Post by avereveard »

ncphil wrote: post #81

"... almost no government has the IT capacity and resources to single-handedly develop an eID quickly and to the appropriate standards." Bullshit. We're talking identity management here. Any government that can't handle that internally doesn't deserve to exist. What that's really about is feathering the nests of tech industry donors (and/or the non-tech middlemen or middlewomen who seem to grow like weeds around the…

Our country rolled out two certification based systems (Carta Nazionale Servizi which then got rolled into the Carta di Identità Elettronica), plus a federation based system built around SAML (Sistema Pubblico di Identità Digitale) where you can access to most italian bureoucracy.

And we're talking about Italy, not some first rated technological paradise.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#139

Post by tompagenet2 »

yurielt wrote: post #125
tompagenet2 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The banning of minarets is a data point against this liberty.

That banning is only a point against liberty if your definition of liberty is very American (religion above welfare of people) for most people maintaining the culture that gives that liberty is as important as liberty so changing that culture would obviously destroy the possibility of that liberty I really do not understand why people simply close this eyes when this bans go against Catholics and christians but freak…

Asked out of genuine inquiry and curiosity not to bait (I know it can be difficult to tell online): The referendum was simply to add the words "The building of minarets is prohibited" to the constitution. This only affects someone who would wish to build one (so Muslims) and in my mind says that your type are less welcome here. Why would Christians be negatively affected by this?

I would take the view that banning the form of your religious buildings (and implicitly, to your comment, being hostile to Muslims who in your response you seem to equate with a culture that destroys the possibility of liberty) seems more of a betrayal of the principle of liberty and freedom for all than allowing different people to pray and associate as they wish, providing they follow basic tenants of human law (not harming people etc).

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#140

Post by esja »

MikeUt wrote: post #88
folli wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a datapoint: Switzerland has the highest proportion of foreigners in Europe (25%; with the exception of Luxembourg, and perhaps some microstates like Vatican, Monte Carlo, don't know about those). So I don't think there's any comparison at all to Japan (2%).

Are the "foreigners" mostly other Europeans?

About two thirds are from the EU28/EFTA countries.

However: There are twice as many Asians in Switzerland as there are people from the Americas. There are also more Africans than there are Americans. The fifth largest immigrant group are from Kosovo (almost as many as France and way more than Spain or Austria). There have been multiple waves of immigration and the country is actually very diverse.

https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/population/m...

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