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How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

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Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#131

Post by btschaegg »

ljm wrote: post #76
andrewflnr wrote: post #15

While I don't disagree with the article, this quote better sums up how I feel about programming. > The programmer, like the poet, works only slightly removed from pure thought-stuff. He builds his castles in the air, from air, creating by exertion of the imagination... Yet the program construct, unlike the poet's words, is real in the sense that it moves and works, producing visible outputs separate from the construc…

let var i be none while var i is less than j i is i plus one

> Oh freddled gruntbuggly,

;-)

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#132

Post by cambalache »

> There’s a scene in Moneyball in which Brad Pitt’s character, the manager of the Oakland A’s

This is how you know the article was written by an European. Billy Bean is of course the GM, not the manager, a subtle and pedantic, but very important difference in baseball clubs job titles.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#133

Post by DC1350 »

einpoklum wrote: post #26
xwdv wrote: post #3

How? Writing resource hogging code all day to figure out how to best display obtrusive advertisements is a good start.

If you're doing that, then quit. It's not worth it and you'll regret having done this. You'll find another job. Hell, you'll find another job as a programmer. Don't do this to yourself, nor to us.

Most jobs are terrible but they also pay less. I think he’s making the right choice. If you don’t believe in trade offs then you’re probably being taken advantage of.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#134

Post by frereubu »

vlunkr wrote: post #110
reaperducer wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Retiring sounds good right about now. I'm with you. If I had another skill, I'd give up computers entirely. Maybe have a smartphone, and that's it. But only for limited use. I wish I could build things with my hands, or play an instrument, or just be good at something else, and let the tech world pass me by. I used to love technology because it was fun and interesting. It's no longer either of those things.

I know it's the biggest cliche in the world, but the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Lots of musicians wish they had a skill that let them sit at a desk all day and get a stable paycheck. Not saying you have to keep working in tech forever, but I don't think it's objectively stopped being fun and interesting.

Absolutely. Every friend I talk to, from central bankers to dramaturgs, has regrets about the career they chose. It generally breaks down into where they are on the spectrum from (a) they wish their job was more creative to (b) they wish they had more money to live comfortably. I know almost no-one who is content that they've found a happy medium, and the few that do have done so through blind luck.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#135

Post by overscore »

reaperducer wrote: post #88
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The longer I am in this profession (and it's been over 20 years) the less I see my peers as "dicks and idiots" but more as victims of the same broken game. I work with very smart people, to be honest. It's the technology and the employers and the culture of development that's the problem. Retiring sounds good right about now.

Retiring sounds good right about now. I'm with you. If I had another skill, I'd give up computers entirely. Maybe have a smartphone, and that's it. But only for limited use. I wish I could build things with my hands, or play an instrument, or just be good at something else, and let the tech world pass me by. I used to love technology because it was fun and interesting. It's no longer either of those things.

For almost exactly the same reasons as discussed above, I'm in the process of trying to move from software development to medicine. I'm currently a pre-hospital medical practitioner and work part-time in that field. My pay averages over the last year averages between 1/20th to 1/25th (0.05 to 0.04 times) my hourly pay as a software development consultant.

I'm now trying to decide whether I should attempt a medical degree to become a doctor. It will take ~7 years, a lot of unpaid study and work during that time, and after 10 years, if I'm lucky enough to become a consultant hospital doctor, I'll still be paid less than I am now, both per hour and per annum. As I'm in my late 30's with a mortgage and family who are dependent on me, it's a big, big commitment and risk to take.

Still, I vastly prefer my time spent with my pre-hospital medical colleagues and with patients to that which I spend working in software. I get an incredible amount of "life satisfaction", or whatever you might call the sentiment, for this part of my professional life - the only other time that comes close is my time in the military.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#136

Post by Tade0 »

I wrote my first lines of code when I was 12, so I had a good few years of working exclusively on stuff I was interested in before I went to college and found employment in this field after graduating.

My current job is nothing like those years and in comparison feels like bricklaying. It pays the bills, but there isn't a lot of room for growth, because we have a streamlined process designed for delivering the product on time and on budget.

In one word - boring.

On one side this is great - you should use boring technology, because it brings the most value. On the other it's as devoid of romanticism as it can be.

The silver lining here is that this job leaves me with enough mental energy to pursue hobby projects. Provided that at the moment I'm not in a situation in which I'm forced to follow rules/directions I consider harmful/stupid.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#137

Post by sixstringtheory »

philosopher1234 wrote: post #112
reaperducer wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don't have the will/independence ("budget") to implement that change So, dicks and idiot middle managers. I think you made his point.

No. This is such a small issue who honestly cares if it gets fixed? I guarantee you this is not the most important thing anyone involved could be working on. Too many perfectionists on this website.

The person who brought up the story mentioned account balances. Someone will definitely care when a latent combination of bugs is triggered and the company loses money because of it. See Knight capital and the more recent Citi debacles.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#138

Post by wwww4all »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #101
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? The job situation for good developers has never been better. We can make salaries that would have seemed unthinkable two decades ago while working from home and doing something we enjoy.

This has not been my experience. It seems that it's a young person's game, and us older folks are not particularly encouraged to participate. Frankly, I've been stunned by the way in which I was treated, in the short period of time I spent looking for work, after leaving my last company. Thankfully, I am not required to work, and have been having the best time I could imagine, since giving up on working for others. I…

Companies look for expertise in older software engineers.

They want senior level to help them maintain legacy systems or lead the upgrade to latest tech stack.

If backend is your specialty, market oneself as expert in backed solutions using latest stack. The fundamental CS principles never change. Learn the basics of cloud, containers, orchestration, micro services, and inform recruiters about experiences delivering solutions in latest stack.

The recruiters will be rushing to your profile and demanding interview slots.

Good luck.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#140

Post by WalterBright »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #27
rufus_foreman wrote: post #4

"After a while, more and more, you’ll find yourself in moments of awe, stunned by the size and fragility of it all; the mountains of work and talent and creativity and foresight and intelligence and luck that went into it. And you’ll reach for the word “magic” because you won’t know how else to describe it and then you lean back and smile, wondering how someone could not." I guess I wish I felt like that about progra…

The longer I am in this profession (and it's been over 20 years) the less I see my peers as "dicks and idiots" but more as victims of the same broken game. I work with very smart people, to be honest. It's the technology and the employers and the culture of development that's the problem. Retiring sounds good right about now.

> Retiring sounds good right about now.

I tried that. After 6 weeks of watching TV I restarted my business and went back to work. Retirement is a living death.

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