Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

propublica.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 319 posts

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#131

Post by THE_PUN_STOPS »

indymike wrote: post #90

1. You can file your taxes for free in the US. You only have to pay if you want to do so through a tax preparation service or software. 2. It's actually pretty easy to use the electronic forms or just use paper. 3. Tax software is good, and a competent tax preparer is even better. Why we have a tax system which creates so much work there is an entire set of industries (tech, tax preparers, etc) built around it just t…

You can thank Grover Norquist[1] for that. The Taxpayer Protection Pledge [2] that he promulgates to US republican lawmakers is the primary mechanism though which those legislators justify blocking simplification and streamlining of tax filing. If it's easier for people to pay taxes the government will probably ask for more cash if we implement those systems, right? Therefore it must be blocked according to the pledge! The logic is airtight!

Ironically in reality this is actually pretty much the opposite of taxpayer protection and amounts to additional tax paid to private corporations on TOP of our existing taxes.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_for_Tax_Reform#Taxpa...

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#132

Post by indymike »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #93
indymike wrote: post #90

1. You can file your taxes for free in the US. You only have to pay if you want to do so through a tax preparation service or software. 2. It's actually pretty easy to use the electronic forms or just use paper. 3. Tax software is good, and a competent tax preparer is even better. Why we have a tax system which creates so much work there is an entire set of industries (tech, tax preparers, etc) built around it just t…

Part of the reason is because tax software companies pay legislators to make and keep taxes complicated. There is no reason, with the advent of internet and databases, that 90% of people’s taxes can’t be completely automated. Part of the reason is because more tax rules means more loopholes to take advantage of.

"There is no reason, with the advent of internet and databases, that 90% of people’s taxes can’t be completely automated."

This is an area where there could be a lot of improvement. Many people work at least partially as a contractor and have to self-report and make payments. The self-reporting and making payments is where a lot of the problems start with automation. Employees? Mostly solved except for where people do stuff that isn't paid with employment wages.

"Part of the reason is because more tax rules means more loopholes to take advantage of."

Loopholes are often deliberate ways of encouraging behavior with money. For example, an exemption on mortgage interest lets people avoid paying tax on most of their spend on their mortgage. Why? To encourage people to buy homes. Guess what, people with big, expensive homes with large mortgage payments benefit the most. Another was the infamous Hummer credit in the 90s and 00s where if you bought a big SUV or truck, you could take 100% depreciation on it in the first year. So people bought lots of Ford Excursions, Hummer H2s and other gigantic gas guzzlers. It did help the US auto industry.

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#133

Post by theandrewbailey »

vulcan01 wrote: post #87
mywittyname wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit Karma is free. Works great, and has no discernable dark patterns. They even have import features from major payroll companies like ADP. I had to quit turbotax because one year I was a 1099 worker and every year since, it pushes me to go with their "small business edition." Each year it got harder to avoid "upgrading." Seriously, just do it. Quitting TT is so much easier than quitting anything else.

How does Credit Karma make money? I'd feel more comfortable using them if I understood this.

Ads for credit cards, mortgages, and loans.

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#134

Post by lotsofpulp »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #128
lotsofpulp wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hope anyone who made it through A US K-12 education would be able to do their own taxes if all they have is W-2. Even 1099/student loan interest deductions/etc is pretty easy. I would say it only gets really complicated once you venture into dealing with equity and AMT and stuff. It’s funny though that people will scour the web and clip coupons to save money, but they won’t research how their biggest expense…

Researching how taxes are calculated takes up valuable time and mental capacity, and you have to reeducate yourself every couple years on whatever new tweaks to the tax system happened.

Yes, and hopefully it would spur the political will to streamline it so that it doesn’t take up valuable time and mental capacity.

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#135

Post by memco »

mywittyname wrote: post #49
klmadfejno wrote: post #21

I used to say turbo tax wasn't that bad, and that free filing was easy if you just ignored their promises to save you money if you upgraded. Last year however I got all the way to the end of the process where they revealed I made too much and had to pay. That felt extremely unethical, as the information required to come to that conclusion was available far earlier in the process. And yet what am I going to do but use…

Credit Karma is free. Works great, and has no discernable dark patterns. They even have import features from major payroll companies like ADP. I had to quit turbotax because one year I was a 1099 worker and every year since, it pushes me to go with their "small business edition." Each year it got harder to avoid "upgrading." Seriously, just do it. Quitting TT is so much easier than quitting anything else.

I got an email from Credit Karma advertising for TurboTax. This plus the glitch that exposed into [1] leaves me very little confidence in CK. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20699410

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#136

Post by lotsofpulp »

indymike wrote: post #132
lotsofpulp wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the reason is because tax software companies pay legislators to make and keep taxes complicated. There is no reason, with the advent of internet and databases, that 90% of people’s taxes can’t be completely automated. Part of the reason is because more tax rules means more loopholes to take advantage of.

"There is no reason, with the advent of internet and databases, that 90% of people’s taxes can’t be completely automated." This is an area where there could be a lot of improvement. Many people work at least partially as a contractor and have to self-report and make payments. The self-reporting and making payments is where a lot of the problems start with automation. Employees? Mostly solved except for where people d…

> Loopholes are often deliberate ways of encouraging behavior with money.

I don’t buy this. There is an easy way to encourage behavior with money. Give people money in exchange for the behavior.

If the goal is to encourage someone to buy a house, then pay them to buy a house.

The reason politicians don’t do this is because this lays bare all the costs associated with the incentive. Whereas with tax loopholes, they can understate it using whatever assumptions they want.

The tax deduction method allows for loopholes to open up, as well as discrimination by way of making it complicated, and understatement of costs. A straight cash incentive, on the other hand, reduces the avenues of corruption, has a transparent cost, and does the job just as well.

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#137

Post by ceejayoz »

vulcan01 wrote: post #87
mywittyname wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit Karma is free. Works great, and has no discernable dark patterns. They even have import features from major payroll companies like ADP. I had to quit turbotax because one year I was a 1099 worker and every year since, it pushes me to go with their "small business edition." Each year it got harder to avoid "upgrading." Seriously, just do it. Quitting TT is so much easier than quitting anything else.

How does Credit Karma make money? I'd feel more comfortable using them if I understood this.

If you apply for a loan or credit card via their app, they get a couple hundred bucks. Same way "The Points Guy" makes money.

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#138

Post by DavidPeiffer »

abaga129 wrote: post #111
DavidPeiffer wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And yet what am I going to do but use turbo tax again. The perceived risk and effort of using a non-automated system to fill them out doesn't seem worth the cost. I'd suggest FreeTaxUSA.com as an alternative. Federal is always free, and state taxes are ~12/state. I don't have anything obscure about my taxes, and their forms indicate they can handle much more complicated situations than I have. I've used them for 3 y…

I'm using freetaxusa.com for the first time this year. I got fed up with TurboTax after being hit with a similar anti-pattern as the ones described above. Got almost to the end and was told I had to pay $80 to file. This was after spending hours on my taxes because there are some things that can't simply be updated.. no you have to completely start the process over from the beginning. This felt intentional so that I…

Every year I internally gripe about the UI improvements I'd prefer, but fully recognize it is better than TurboTax, and is approachable to people with a wide range of computer literacy.

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#139

Post by mellavora »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #93
indymike wrote: post #90

1. You can file your taxes for free in the US. You only have to pay if you want to do so through a tax preparation service or software. 2. It's actually pretty easy to use the electronic forms or just use paper. 3. Tax software is good, and a competent tax preparer is even better. Why we have a tax system which creates so much work there is an entire set of industries (tech, tax preparers, etc) built around it just t…

Part of the reason is because tax software companies pay legislators to make and keep taxes complicated. There is no reason, with the advent of internet and databases, that 90% of people’s taxes can’t be completely automated. Part of the reason is because more tax rules means more loopholes to take advantage of.

In Sweden taxes are fully automated. Has been for years.

What makes it possible is a comprehensive national ID system. Which has advantages and disadvantages.

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#140

Post by bluGill »

asavadatti wrote: post #59
klmadfejno wrote: post #21

I used to say turbo tax wasn't that bad, and that free filing was easy if you just ignored their promises to save you money if you upgraded. Last year however I got all the way to the end of the process where they revealed I made too much and had to pay. That felt extremely unethical, as the information required to come to that conclusion was available far earlier in the process. And yet what am I going to do but use…

Unless your taxes are really simple I’d suggest hiring a professional to do it for you. It is money well spent

Unless you own a small business your taxes are really simple though and it isn't money well spent. The pros try to tell you they are doing something hard, but your situation isn't unique or hard.
Post reply on HN