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SDL Moves to GitHub

discourse.libsdl.org

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Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#131

Post by smarx007 »

ta988 wrote: post #91
john_cogs wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GitLab team member here. For anyone considering a similar move, I encourage you to check out our GitLab for Open Source program: https://about.gitlab.com/solutions/open-source/

For academics, it take a few minutes to get a github academic account. For gitlab you have to write justifications and wait and wait, to maybe get it...

Yep, our university has GH Enterprise and refuses to “procure” (as it requires the central body to agree to the ToS) free Gitlab for academia as “another” git solution. Our project team on Gitlab cannot get into that program for academics because they only let one application per institution. I understand each side but still don’t see how we can solve this problem. Would love to find a way!

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#132

Post by MaxBarraclough »

rockooooo wrote: post #2

"So in moving it to GitHub, we’re finding that a lot of things are just nicer because a large paid staff of engineers is working on it every day. And I grew up during the heydey of the Free Software Foundation, so I know this is a trap, but I’m tired and don’t have the energy to be a server admin for something that’s held together with scotch tape and prayers when I’m really supposed to be writing OpenGL code." This…

Depends on the specific software. Plenty of Free and Open Source software 'just works' just about perfectly. Firefox and Notepad++ for instance.

In the specific instance of GitHub, I have to agree it's nicer and better polished than the alternatives, but I'd also say the Free Software alternatives (GitLab, SourceHut, etc) are catching up, and are already usable. Hosting your own GitLab instance gives you a far nicer solution than an old school solution like SourceForge.

> we’re finding that a lot of things are just nicer because a large paid staff of engineers is working on it every day

People are paid to work on various Free and Open Source software projects, including Firefox and Notepad++, and most famously, the Linux kernel.

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#133

Post by BearOso »

hyperion2010 wrote: post #111
colechristensen wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This seems to sum up the biggest pain point that drives people away from OSS. Not knowledge, not skill, not price, but the total experience of a nice piece of software that lets you get the work you actually want to get done... done. This is why I continue to be fascinated by FreeBSD, I don't use it for much but when I do, what I'm trying to do almost always works right out of the box. My point is that is all comes…

I have come to the conclusion that the only reason why things like flatpak and snap exist is because the ergonomics for creating and maintaining .deb packages is so awful.

I found out when experimenting with it that Snap inherited most of the .deb cruft. As someone less experienced in .deb packaging, I found it very confusing with all the Ubuntu-specific package separations and archaic requirements. If I don’t have a man page, for instance, I shouldn’t have to create one and learn format naggles to meet an aggressive linter’s specs.

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#134

Post by alexhutcheson »

hyperion2010 wrote: post #107
zokier wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I find this far more worrisome signal of the health of foss ecosystem than the quibbles between elastic and amazon. To me the idea of software "by hackers for hackers" and scratching your own itch has always been one of the key attractions in FOSS ecosystem, but somehow now our itches seem to have outgrown our ability to scratch then. Doing almost anything yourself feels impractical these days. This is als…

For better or for worse, this is nothing new. It is a symptom of the fact that the FSF and other FOSS organizations have displayed a fantastic failure of technical leadership for over 3 decades. The political leadership has not been bad, but if you go back and dig through the history of open source you will see that there have been multiple repeated failures by the supposed thought leaders to provide the equivalent l…

> It is a symptom of the fact that the FSF and other FOSS organizations have displayed a fantastic failure of technical leadership for over 3 decades.

I agree that many FSF/GNU projects have made horrible technical choices, but I don’t think that’s really the root cause here. The reality is that good software requires an enormous amount of skilled labor to create and maintain, and the FSF and other OSS orgs can only muster a small fraction of the engineering hours that a mid-sized for-profit software company could.

In addition, good user-facing software requires more than just good engineering - you need good UX, product direction, etc. Sometimes the creator or maintainer of an OSS program will have the good fortune to be reasonably good at all of these, but it’s very rare, and there aren’t nearly as many UX designers or product managers looking to contribute to open source as there are developers. Even if someone did want to help in this role, the developers on most projects would probably ignore them.

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#135

Post by lmm »

oblio wrote: post #71
colechristensen wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This seems to sum up the biggest pain point that drives people away from OSS. Not knowledge, not skill, not price, but the total experience of a nice piece of software that lets you get the work you actually want to get done... done. This is why I continue to be fascinated by FreeBSD, I don't use it for much but when I do, what I'm trying to do almost always works right out of the box. My point is that is all comes…

What are you using FreeBSD for? I imagine it's quite good at some things, but isn't that range kind of limited? You need to have the precise set of hardware that's well supported and then use it for precisely the thing it supports well.

> What are you using FreeBSD for? I imagine it's quite good at some things, but isn't that range kind of limited? You need to have the precise set of hardware that's well supported and then use it for precisely the thing it supports well.

No you don't? You can throw it on a random commodity desktop and expect it to work. I imagine laptops are harder if you want suspend etc. - it feels pretty similar to how Linux was a few years ago. (If anything support for old hardware tends to be better than Linux because they don't keep changing the kernel interfaces, so a barely-maintained driver from 5 years ago is probably still usable). You don't need to use it in some particular way, it's fine for a daily-driver desktop or home server. I used mine for a little bit of everything until recently - ordinary KDE desktop, fairly normal web hosting environment running some stuff I wrote in Python with WSGI, database server, home VPN server... all the usual stuff.

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#136

Post by Jkvngt »

I don't like this, everything is moving to GitHub which has already done some questionable things. I don't care for Microsoft and I don't believe them when they claim they "heart" Linux.

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#137

Post by rvz »

h_anna_h wrote: post #127
slenk wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, GitLab has recently hiked up their prices. As a GitHub Pro user, my price has only ever gone down.

They could use the free version or self-host it.

Exactly. You have new solutions like GitLab, Gitea and Docker which can automate this stuff for you and it is yours and you own everything. Didn't stop RedoxOS, wireguard and GNOME from self-hosting.

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#138

Post by lmm »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #42
swatson741 wrote: post #18

I've worked on SDL although I haven't contributed any code. Partly because it isn't convenient to contribute and partly because I felt that the work I did wasn't significant enough to merit jumping thru the hoops to contribute. The move to Github is a very welcomed change. > One reason we hadn’t considered a move to GitHub before now is that this project has had a policy of owning all its infrastructure. This is stil…

I think GitHub is generally safe as long as you have an exit plan for when it's no longer the place you want to be. Know where you're moving your issues and actions if you decide you need to leave.

If you're not actually using your backup plan it will likely rot. And if you have a usable alternative, why wouldn't you just use it?

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#139

Post by lmm »

acdha wrote: post #36
ufo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I prefer about Mercurial is that it doesn't have a separate staging area. To create a new commit in git you need to run `git add` followed by `git commit`. In Mercurial it's just `hg commit`. Furthermore, if you want to look at the diff in git sometimes it's `git diff` and sometimes you need to run `git diff --cached`. Now, I'm sure there are antsy git users in this forum ready to reply about how great the…

> To create a new commit in git you need to run `git add` followed by `git commit`. Or `git commit -a` — and if you're making commits that frequently it'll be in your shell history anyway.

Except that if you added a new file then "git commit -a" will miss it out.

Git's UI is full of little sharp edges like that. You get used to them, but it's just needlessly fiddly to start with.

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#140

Post by danbolt »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #14
danbolt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like GitHub made a lot of hacking around and software development a lot more seamless too. Before GitHub, the average state of software development seemed a bit more clunky to me.

Github made _Github style_ development seamless--i.e. centralized source control, slick web UI instead of CLI focus, pull requests instead of e-mailed patches. It's one of many different ways to build software though and it's a fallacy to say the entire field of software development didn't move forward until it existed. For someone who has only known Github style development it's true, but for many projects (includin…

> it's a fallacy to say the entire field of software development didn't move forward until it existed

I mean, like, it kinda did in some ways? I feel like GitHub's semi-centralized web UI and pull requests empowered a lot of people to engage in software development online that wouldn't otherwise. I think if it didn't, we wouldn't see value in GitLab and Gittea providing GitHub's accessibility in a more decentralized way.

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