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Vue Native (2018)

vue-native.io

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Re: Vue Native (2018)

#131

Post by jdjfktkrnj »

rkangel wrote: post #88

Is anyone else sad that we have adopted HTML/CSS as the universal lingua franca for describing views? I understand why (or at least I believe I do): HTML/CSS is an inevitable part of the ecosystem because the web is an important target. A lot of devs will know at least some, and your organisation may already have loads of them because you also need to target the web. Maybe you even already have some view code written…

I've used pretty much all GUI frameworks - raw Win32, MFC, WinForms, wxWindows, Qt, WPF, native Android and iPhone.

HTML/CSS is vastly more powerful and productive, especially when using something like React/Vue.

It's not because "web devs who don't know anything else".

HTML/CSS is just a superior technology. No wonder that even traditional GUIs are moving this direction - Qt with QML, windows with their new Win10 flat design API (forgot its name)

> Basic layout of things in a way that copes with different screen sizes/orientations is a surprisingly black art sometimes.

It's still easier to solve these problems than in a traditional GUI, which if you noticed tend to have a mostly fixed layout, exactly because dynamic layout is so difficult to get right in them.

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#132

Post by iaml »

mrtksn wrote: post #58
that_guy_iain wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 5) Despite its bugs, Xcode is a good IDE that natively understand all the tooling I use. Autocomplete might break down sometimes but it can handle project creation, asset management, project configurations and the distribution. This seems like you have very low standards for what is good.

Please educate me, what is good? What I am missing out on? I'm no stranger to Web tech, including JS on the browser and on the server side. It's hell compared to native App development using the native technologies. I mean, it's so bad that the tutorials explaining the project setup phase can be hours long to follow. Scripts running in the background just to keep you in check and let you write more readable code that…

>I'm no stranger to Web tech, including JS on the browser and on the server side. It's hell compared to native App development using the native technologies.

As a front-end developer, it's clear to me that you only think that because you are familiar with it, same for me with js - all you need to start developing is npx create-react-app appname or npx create-next-app appname. I toyed around with react native too, and expo is godsend. On the other hand when I tried to use swift/xcode I quickly discovered that official docs are just trash for people unfamiliar with it and community is so much smaller (I was only looking at swiftui FWIW). You have to configure things like dependencies with xcode ui while in js it's all code. Needless to say I didn't go through with it and will go react native next time without a second thought.

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#133

Post by Escapado »

rkangel wrote: post #88

Is anyone else sad that we have adopted HTML/CSS as the universal lingua franca for describing views? I understand why (or at least I believe I do): HTML/CSS is an inevitable part of the ecosystem because the web is an important target. A lot of devs will know at least some, and your organisation may already have loads of them because you also need to target the web. Maybe you even already have some view code written…

As someone who is currently making a living as a frontend dev I feel you - however for anything more visually advanced and everything less standard (and I understand that it is debatable whether that should be done in the first place) it's often quite difficult to achieve a certain visual effect in all the other gui toolkits I have tried (QT, PyGtk). Often image-blending modes, configurable shadows, animations (especially on those properties) and dynamical effects either are not available at all or not as simple to set up as I am used to. Nevertheless I'd like to be educated which framework would be a good fit for building your typical animation rich dribbble/behance design with glassmorphism shadow magic and whatnot without writing custom shaders. Maybe Flutter?

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#134

Post by c-smile »

rkangel wrote: post #88

Is anyone else sad that we have adopted HTML/CSS as the universal lingua franca for describing views? I understand why (or at least I believe I do): HTML/CSS is an inevitable part of the ecosystem because the web is an important target. A lot of devs will know at least some, and your organisation may already have loads of them because you also need to target the web. Maybe you even already have some view code written…

> HTML/CSS is an inevitable part of the ecosystem because the web is an important target.

You did confuse cause with effect.

In the first place Web accepted HTML/CSS/JS for the good reason - as a classic implementation of "Separation of Concerns" principle.

See:

1. HTML defines semantic structure of UI - DOM tree.

2. JS, as language-behind-the-UI, handles users events and updates DOM tree and its state.

3. CSS defines how that DOM tree is presented to the user in its current state.

These three tasks are so distinct that require their own languages that are optimal for the task.

That split has a lot of sense. For example, HTML and abstract DOM tree alone enables accessible access (a.k.a. Section 508). And so on.

There were, are and will be all-in-one approaches to UI, like Flutter or WPF for example. They will never be universal UI solutions for reasons outlined above, especially on desktop UI.

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#135

Post by ncrmro »

Lots of comments on HTML/CSS being hard or non optimal but learning to use things like grid (grid template areas plus designing first for mobile) and flex together really allow all sorts of layouts one would create.

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#136

Post by kaba0 »

sgt wrote: post #123
kaba0 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant it in terms of a widget with no notion of the DOM. You can’t really right click, select, only if the app creator overrides those events. Nothing native. Also, what if the creator embeds an ad inside a canvas? You would need an AI to hide it from there. So, all in all a pretty terrible direction to go..

If the creator wants an ad there, let him put an ad there or just simply stop using the app.

Ok, what about the vision impaired? Or any other point I mentioned?

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#137

Post by ignoramous »

realusername wrote: post #84
sgt wrote: post #59

Flutter web is also becoming a viable option for web apps. I recently wrote a new app in Flutter and it works surprisingly well on the web, not just in native iOS and Android. It has some quirks though but I did not find anything serious.

I have a large Flutter codebase and I don't have the same opinion, Flutter web is still an alpha quality and it would take way too much work to make my codebase work with the web version. For desktop though, it's pretty good.

Have you by any chance also evaluated / considered https://platform.uno/ ? If so, I am interested in your take on it versus Flutter.

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#138

Post by [deleted] »

ktpsns wrote: post #5

I love functional concepts such as stateless systems, but young folks should acknowledge that two way event binding is something graphical desktop toolkits are doing since decades. For instance, Qt signal-slot mechanism https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/signalsandslots.html or https://libsigcplusplus.github.io/libsigcplusplus Furthermore, MVC is , when done correctly, a sane two way data-GUI binding. However, I have never seen…

[deleted]

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#139

Post by u678u »

rkangel wrote: post #88

Is anyone else sad that we have adopted HTML/CSS as the universal lingua franca for describing views? I understand why (or at least I believe I do): HTML/CSS is an inevitable part of the ecosystem because the web is an important target. A lot of devs will know at least some, and your organisation may already have loads of them because you also need to target the web. Maybe you even already have some view code written…

Its probably because the best guis are written by JS devs, so the end stack becomes the way they're used to seeing it.

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#140

Post by pjmlp »

agumonkey wrote: post #129
pjmlp wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like C: it's bad but it is the only thing that works everywhere so it's won.

Isn't C a sweet spot of portability and minimalism ? no matter the defects .. the previous qualities seemed to matter more. I mean there were attempts at replacing C but nothing came close to remove it right ?

C only got there, because UNIX just like the Browser did to JavaScript, has placed it everywhere.

This happened only because Bell Labs/AT&T were forbidden to sell UNIX, hence its source code spread across the industry, with a symbolic price that made it by comparison with other OS vendors feel almost as quite cheap beer.

During the 80's and early 90's, C only mattered in universities and companies that had access to some kind of UNIX flavour.

Everywhere else we had Assembly, Modula-2, Pascal and Basic flavours, BLISS and some PL/I variants like PL/M on CP/M.

So when you happen to have UNIX, and a C compiler around, trying to bring people to use something else, it is the same as trying to replace JavaScript on the browser.

So we come up with our CoffeScript and Typescript likes for systems programming, but C (even in C++, Objective-C) is always there.

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