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Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

nohello.net

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Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#131

Post by eganist »

signal11 wrote: post #63
jasode wrote: post #33

>People who do this are generally trying to be polite by not jumping right into the request, like one would in person or on the phone - and that's great! Different people have different reasons but I notice that many people that do a naked "hi" / "hey" are trying to see if the receiver is present for an immediate reply. In other words, the sender deliberately wants a synchronous instead of asynchronous convo. They do…

For immediate replies I’d usually use “you there?” or “free for a quick chat?”. The naked greeting is just begging to get ignored.

The linked page advocates against these on the same premise, which is my primary challenge with it. It ignores urgency.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#133

Post by eganist »

kijin wrote: post #111
jonbronson wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty presumptive. There are any number of factors that might make a synchronous conversation desirable or even necessary. Merely seeking that out implies nothing about how someone values other people's time.

Although synchronous conversation is often desirable, there are different ways to initiate it. IMO it's more polite to use an async channel first to ask if the other party is available for a phone call, and if not, schedule a phone call for a specific time. Like, I'd love to talk with you about that problem this afternoon, but right now I'm too busy debugging another problem.

Worth noting that the linked site advocates against this:

> × "Hello, are you around?"

> × "hi sophie - quick question."

> × "You got a sec?"

I agree with you around scheduling synchronous communications, but the thread itself seems to have devolved into a puristic argument against all sync comms regardless of urgency, ephemerality, confidentiality, etc.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#134

Post by kempbellt »

jasode wrote: post #33

>People who do this are generally trying to be polite by not jumping right into the request, like one would in person or on the phone - and that's great! Different people have different reasons but I notice that many people that do a naked "hi" / "hey" are trying to see if the receiver is present for an immediate reply. In other words, the sender deliberately wants a synchronous instead of asynchronous convo. They do…

This is a common theme in my workplace. Especially with everyone working remote and odd hours these days. We use both email and Slack, but most conversations tend to be asynchronous regardless and I frequently wonder why we even have an instant messenger.

That said, I find that even if a message is asynchronous, it is much easier to track conversation flow via slack than email. Reply chains and indentations get messy and become an eye sore to navigate. If I write, "Hey, did you do that thing?" and don't hear "Yep, it's done" for a day, I can more easily see the flow of thought in Slack.

Though, I would appreciate a more standardized practice around, "If Slack says you are available, we can expect you to respond relatively quickly" than seeing a green dot and not hearing back for hours or a day.

I still hate "Hello" and "Hi" messages though. It baits a response without putting in any groundwork for me to understand what a person wants. Just say what you need.

> Them: "Hello"

> Me: "What's up?"

> Them: "Are you available now?"

> Me: "Yes... What do you need?"

Flows like this make me come off as an asshole because I'm annoyed by the tedious nature of the conversation. Tell me what you need so I can know how to respond.

> Them: "Hey, when you have minute, can you take a look at the database?"

> Me: "Sure thing. Can do in about 15 minutes"

^ this is way easier to work with for me

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#136

Post by iujjkfjdkkdkf »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #87
jasode wrote: post #33

>People who do this are generally trying to be polite by not jumping right into the request, like one would in person or on the phone - and that's great! Different people have different reasons but I notice that many people that do a naked "hi" / "hey" are trying to see if the receiver is present for an immediate reply. In other words, the sender deliberately wants a synchronous instead of asynchronous convo. They do…

Yeah one thing that annoys me even more is "cold-calling".. E.g. ringing me on teams without asking if I'm there first. One of the good things about remote working is that I can finally concentrate on stuff without constant interruptions.

Haha I can understand why that bothers you of course, but I find it amusing that I feel exactly the opposite way. I would usually much prefer that someone try phoning me or (of initiating a call on slack or zoom) that go through the "hi, time to chat? When is good, etc?" Slack has icons to indicate availability, if mine is green, I really wish people would just call.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#137

Post by dnautics »

signal11 wrote: post #63
jasode wrote: post #33

>People who do this are generally trying to be polite by not jumping right into the request, like one would in person or on the phone - and that's great! Different people have different reasons but I notice that many people that do a naked "hi" / "hey" are trying to see if the receiver is present for an immediate reply. In other words, the sender deliberately wants a synchronous instead of asynchronous convo. They do…

For immediate replies I’d usually use “you there?” or “free for a quick chat?”. The naked greeting is just begging to get ignored.

Just shorten that to syn

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#138

Post by city41 »

On a similar note, please don't send a private message to someone asking a technical question more suitable for a channel. It puts unfair pressure on the receiver, denies others who could help the opportunity to do so, and doesn't help others who have the same question (including the answer not being archived in search).

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#139

Post by blablabla123 »

lwhi wrote: post #6

How about people choose for themselves? Feels that one person's annoyance is another's wish. I don't see why someone's invented manifesto should be used as a guide for everyone.

Almost any request on how communication should be (apart from basic politeness) seems bogus to me. Apart from this, chat is async and rather novel, phone is sync and already around since a bit more than 100 years.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#140

Post by happyopossum »

kempbellt wrote: post #134
jasode wrote: post #33

>People who do this are generally trying to be polite by not jumping right into the request, like one would in person or on the phone - and that's great! Different people have different reasons but I notice that many people that do a naked "hi" / "hey" are trying to see if the receiver is present for an immediate reply. In other words, the sender deliberately wants a synchronous instead of asynchronous convo. They do…

This is a common theme in my workplace. Especially with everyone working remote and odd hours these days. We use both email and Slack, but most conversations tend to be asynchronous regardless and I frequently wonder why we even have an instant messenger. That said, I find that even if a message is asynchronous, it is much easier to track conversation flow via slack than email. Reply chains and indentations get messy…

> I would appreciate a more standardized practice around, "If Slack says you are available, we can expect you to respond relatively quickly" than seeing a green dot and not hearing back for hours or a day.

No. Slack does not know if I’m at my desk, busy, or even taking a protected me-time lunch break. And no, you cannot expect me to manually update my status in Slack, Teams, Zoom, and every other communication tool I’m forced to use every time I walk upstairs to nuke my coffee or use the bathroom.

Just ask your question, and wait fir a response. If you need me RIGHT NOW, then pick up your dang phone and call me.

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