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Remembering Windows 3.1 themes and user empowerment

hisham.hm

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Re: Remembering Windows 3.1 themes and user empowerment

#131

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

joshmanders wrote: post #128
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get where you think that I am claiming these operating systems lack accessibility features. That's an invention of yours. I do make the verifiable claim that they lack the configurability of Windows 3 as regards font and color choices throughout the UI, and further that this is in fact an accessibility feature in itself. Windows 10, for instance, only allows you to change the "accent color" and select either…

> I don't get where you think that I am claiming these operating systems lack accessibility features. That's an invention of yours. Because you're ranting about operating systems not being accessible, there's only 3 possible options, Windows, Linux or macOS.

No, that is not what I'm saying. I'm saying that this kind of configurability acts as an additional accessibility feature, and further could probably serve as a replacement for bespoke accessibility features these operating systems do have (like "dark mode" vs "light mode").

Re: Remembering Windows 3.1 themes and user empowerment

#132

Post by marwis »

squiggleblaz wrote: post #42
richard_todd wrote: post #32

On the Windows side, isn't it a side-effect of the shift from standardized common controls to WPF that happened around the vista time-frame? It's much harder to provide consistent user theming against non-standard controls. Similarly, on the early web you could theme sites easily with your browser settings, but as theming power shifted to web developers with CSS, that capability melted away.

> On the Windows side, isn't it a side-effect of the shift from standardized common controls to WPF that happened around the vista time-frame? It's much harder to provide consistent user theming against non-standard controls. Not directly. If you code in Win32 on modern Windows, you pretty much have to enable themed widgets. Once you've enabled themed widgets, you give up the ability for the user to control the appea…

Most native desktop development in Windows is nowadays based on WPF and as parent mentioned WPF broke the consistency with the rest of Win32. WPF does it's own vector-based drawing that completely ignores legacy Win32 API except for some basics such as control colors.

Even its standard Windows theme is a poor imitation of actual Windows style - you can easily spot WPF apps with default theme because they stick out like an eye sore.

Re: Remembering Windows 3.1 themes and user empowerment

#133

Post by anthk »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #25

I wish there were real high-quality Linux and Windows themes imitating Windows 3.x, 98 and XP (and some other old OSes perhaps) realistically, not just "kind of like that". I would even pay money for such if I were satisfied. Ideally, they should also be easy to combine in different ways. E.g. I want Win3.11 pixel art icons, Win98 window&panel styles and WinXP non-antialiased fonts - these 3 things make me feel orgas…

https://b00merang.weebly.com/desktop-themes.html

Re: Remembering Windows 3.1 themes and user empowerment

#135

Post by tinus_hn »

signal11 wrote: post #70
tinus_hn wrote: post #66

On Windows most applications don’t even use the normal title bars and controls. What’s the use in allowing people to customize their colors?

You can use nonstandard controls and still allow people to customise colours. There are APIs (GetSysColor for instance) which’ll let you query and honour user settings, assuming you care to and don’t put your branding / Look & Feel preferences ahead of the user’s.

The fact you can doesn’t mean apps do.

They probably fixed it now, but this is what Microsofts own explorer looked like in 2018 with Dark Mode:

https://www.howtogeek.com/fyi/microsoft-adds-a-dark-theme-to...

You can guess about the support in third party apps.

Re: Remembering Windows 3.1 themes and user empowerment

#136

Post by syx »

freetonik wrote: post #74

Shameless plug: I started documenting and collecting screenshots and screencasts recordings of old software at UI museum[1]. There is a great intro tutorial from Windows 3.11[2] and extensive collection of screenshots as well. The level of consistency and overall caring is very high by today’s standards. The tutorial explains core GUI concepts like mouse movements and windows. This is something I’d gladly show to my…

Nice collection, a similar project you could take a look at is Toasty Tech's GUI Gallery[1]

1. http://toastytech.com/guis/index.html

Re: Remembering Windows 3.1 themes and user empowerment

#137

Post by freetonik »

syx wrote: post #136
freetonik wrote: post #74

Shameless plug: I started documenting and collecting screenshots and screencasts recordings of old software at UI museum[1]. There is a great intro tutorial from Windows 3.11[2] and extensive collection of screenshots as well. The level of consistency and overall caring is very high by today’s standards. The tutorial explains core GUI concepts like mouse movements and windows. This is something I’d gladly show to my…

Nice collection, a similar project you could take a look at is Toasty Tech's GUI Gallery[1] 1. http://toastytech.com/guis/index.html

There's also GUIdebook[1]

1. https://guidebookgallery.org/

Re: Remembering Windows 3.1 themes and user empowerment

#138

Post by virtue3 »

jonpurdy wrote: post #121
selfhoster11 wrote: post #36

Unpopular opinion: optimising for "branding" is what killed theming. Everyone wants to have their own custom colour theme, brand-associated font or button style, which clashes with uniformity of system controls. If everyone renders buttons in a custom way, they bypass the native, theming-capable, accessible-by-default system controls. As long as product managers are happy, it doesn't matter that users aren't.

As a Technical PM, I fought against a former boss when they wanted to forego native controls because they wanted their app to be branded, because without a custom look they felt that their app would not be unique and memorable. If an app can't survive on its usefulness alone, it probably shouldn't exist. As a user, if an app doesn't have a native UI, I disregard it unless I need it for a specific and mandatory use.

The only time you should NOT be using a native control is when you have UX that demands something very custom. Or you're doing some multiplatform thing, in which case you should try and use a toolkit that can at least pretend to be native controls on all the platforms.

Re: Remembering Windows 3.1 themes and user empowerment

#139

Post by HeckFeck »

I recently set out to try a simpler window manager and custom desktop on Linux. This led me to discover Fluxbox. The sheer variety of themes for that WM is unfathomable. Enough to suit anyone for a lifetime.

The go-to source for Fluxbox themes: https://tenr.de/styles/ (currently down, hopefully not permanently)

Mirror: http://web.archive.org/web/20201019233308/https://tenr.de/st...

Nothing has this same variety today. I hate how serious computing has become.

Re: Remembering Windows 3.1 themes and user empowerment

#140

Post by ecliptik »

HeckFeck wrote: post #139

I recently set out to try a simpler window manager and custom desktop on Linux. This led me to discover Fluxbox. The sheer variety of themes for that WM is unfathomable. Enough to suit anyone for a lifetime. The go-to source for Fluxbox themes: https://tenr.de/styles/ (currently down, hopefully not permanently) Mirror: http://web.archive.org/web/20201019233308/https://tenr.de/st... Nothing has this same variety today…

Fluxbox is still my goto window manager whenever I setup a Linux for local desktop or remote VNC because of how lightweight and configurable it is.

Sad that it hasn't had an update in over 5 years, but also good in the sense that it's not becoming a shadow of it's former self and is still has the same solid principles and themes it's had for years.

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