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The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

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Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#131

Post by kubanczyk »

perryizgr8 wrote: post #86
aldanor wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here in regards to Magit. I've tried seriously using Emacs (Spacemacs) for a year or two, but something always doesn't work as intended, code completion and static analysis is extremely hard to configure, especially you have some non-standard project setups. Then switched to a mix of vim for simple stuff or clion/pycharm in vim mode for rust/cpp/python... BUT, subjectively, Magit is the best git client ever crea…

Why do you need to use a git "client"? What's wrong with just using the standard CLI? I use VS code and never bother with its git ui. Just open a terminal and use git commands.

Git CLI is fantástico if you want to do two things per hour. If you want to do twenty, it's just too many keystrokes. Even if we only talk basic add/commit/push.

Two especially laborious operations are `git add -p` and `git rebase -i`. Try them out on magit, you'll see the difference.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#132

Post by jimmyvalmer »

tldr Neovim is a more actively developed vim. Vscode is a more than good enough editor for all seasons. Emacs is both stymied and celebrated for its adherence to "software freedom."

Editorial: No one cares about "software freedom." If it takes [more than 2000 words](https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html) to describe what "free" means (another bad case of tldr), then forget it.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#133

Post by heartbreak »

lordgrenville wrote: post #88
lima wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of IDEs, IntelliJ also comes with built-in profiling. And every modern web browser has robust built-in profiling tools.

I think you're referring to (its wrapper around) Python cProfile, not a profiler for the IDE itself?

IntelliJ has a profiler for the IDE itself, too.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#134

Post by u801e »

ilaksh wrote: post #74

I use vim frequently. But I think that people should realize and be able to admit that vim and emacs are outdated. They can still be useful especially for people like me who have a sunk cost in learning them. But the honest evaluation is outdated. For example, the core modal interface of vim is related to historical limitations at the time it was created. http://xahlee.info/kbd/keyboard_hardware_and_key_choices.htm..…

> the core modal interface of vim is related to historical limitations at the time it was created.

While that's true, the type of text manipulation and navigation one can achieve in normal and command mode far exceeds what one can do with the standard keyboard shortcuts for text manipulation, navigation, and selection in most GUI applications using, with or without holding the shift key, the arrow, del, home, end, pgdn, and pgup keys, or the ctrl-{a,c,f,x,v,y,home,end} key combinations.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#135

Post by ttt0 »

perryizgr8 wrote: post #86
aldanor wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here in regards to Magit. I've tried seriously using Emacs (Spacemacs) for a year or two, but something always doesn't work as intended, code completion and static analysis is extremely hard to configure, especially you have some non-standard project setups. Then switched to a mix of vim for simple stuff or clion/pycharm in vim mode for rust/cpp/python... BUT, subjectively, Magit is the best git client ever crea…

Why do you need to use a git "client"? What's wrong with just using the standard CLI? I use VS code and never bother with its git ui. Just open a terminal and use git commands.

Nothing's wrong with using CLI. You might not need it, but sometimes it's nice to have something with more. Most people on this planet think that managing files from terminal is pure insanity, and I do just that, I didn't even bothered to install a graphical file manager. And yet I use a git client/front-end in my text editor, because it's nicer to do some things that way. The most useful feature is probably interactively staging hunks just like you'd edit a text file over what standard git does.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#136

Post by hibbelig »

submeta wrote: post #30

When you finally learn to master and config Emacs, you run circles around all other editors. Emacs is so much more than just an editor. But even if you only use it for coding: Magit is the best git client I have used in years (coming from PyCharm + Git Tower App, which is nice), then there‘s Ztree-Diff (excellent folder diff tool; previously using Kaleidoscope app), then Eshell for interacting with the server from wi…

It's very interesting. I used Emacs for a long time, but slowly got weaned off it.

- I used it for email, then I had to collaborate with people who wrote "please see my comments in orange below". (Of course, they were Outlook users.) Emacs did not show that orange color, so I didn't know... Maybe these days it's possible to read Outlook emails nicely in Emacs.

- I used it for development, then the Java software I worked on got too big to internalize all APIs and Eclipse completion and refactoring really helped. I did try to build the Eclipse "quickfix" thing in Emacs, but all I got done was to add a missing import (because JDEE, I think it was, provided that functionality).

- I switched from Linux to Windows because the world around me was like that, and so I could help junior colleagues with their EOL problems...

- I used Mercurial (hg) for a while and TortoiseHg was really nice, so I didn't feel the need to use Emacs for this.

It's a pity, really. Some aspect here, some aspect there, and then you get pulled away from Emacs.

Now, with LSP, perhaps Emacs could offer code completion and refactoring, but the Java app I work on builds with gradle, and I have no clue how to tell the Java/LSP thing about the class path... So I'm on IntelliJ...

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#137

Post by aidos »

ashwanidausodia wrote: post #129
aidos wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s amazing news. Native LSP would be game changing. I use coc, but it takes a bit of messing about to get everything working smoothly. Also vscode has has a bunch of extra stuff beyond what’s available via LSP for python now, which is a shame because I’d love to get a full pyright + bells experience in vim.

Coc has coc-pyright extension. You don't have to use pyls. https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim/wiki/Using-coc-extensio... https://github.com/fannheyward/coc-pyright

I use it, but MS have forked pyright with some features now locked just to vscode without support in the LSP.

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/python/announcing-pylance-fas...

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#138

Post by augustk »

submeta wrote: post #30

When you finally learn to master and config Emacs, you run circles around all other editors. Emacs is so much more than just an editor. But even if you only use it for coding: Magit is the best git client I have used in years (coming from PyCharm + Git Tower App, which is nice), then there‘s Ztree-Diff (excellent folder diff tool; previously using Kaleidoscope app), then Eshell for interacting with the server from wi…

> When you finally learn to master and config Emacs, you run circles around all other editors.

I quit Emacs when I realized that I spent too much time on configuration rather than solving first hand problems; it can almost become an obsession. Now I use Pluma.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#140

Post by kubanczyk »

the__alchemist wrote: post #77

I'm curious if the userbase of these have tried a Jetbrains IDE (PyCharm, CLion, IntelliJ etc). I've found the Jetbrains IDEs understand the language more thoroughly - this means better code navigation, error-catching, and refactoring. I've also found the implicit project-first focus (as opposed to file-first) to be more practical for most things I work on.

A small gripe for me was startup time of JetBrain IDEs. Another small one is that they need /dev/null redirection because they spew weird errors to stdout/stderr.

A big one: on Windows, do they have a WSL1 or WSL2 integration now, i.e. cam they run/debug the compiled artifact under Linux? Use Linux-based compiler/toolchain?

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