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Javascript Bitcoin Miner

forum.bitcoin.org

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Re: Javascript Bitcoin Miner

#131

Post by mtogo »

vabole wrote: post #30
mtogo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have an average consumer box and leave this running during the day, a few USD a year at current exchange rates.

Not even that much. On my old laptop I get a little more than 1000 hash. Assuming that average computer is twice as fast as mine we get 2 khash/s. Inserting it in the calculator [1] shows that it would take 6068212 days on average to calculate one block of 50 bitcoins. That is 332.5 years per bitcoin. At current rate it means $0.02 per year. [1] http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/old_calculator.php

I stand corrected, thanks.

Re: Javascript Bitcoin Miner

#132

Post by jpr »

peterbraden wrote: post #129

on the ethics of this thing - most people seem to think that using a users cpu without permission is unethical. My browser is often brought to it's knees by badly written flash ads - is there a difference?

There is no difference. That's why people who want to retain their sanity disallow Flash. And it's really fucking close that I don't disable all JS too.

Re: Javascript Bitcoin Miner

#133

Post by stcredzero »

jellicle wrote: post #128
iwwr wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to pay taxes and also settle debts in the official currency. That alone gives it more than mere 'perceived value'. Oh, needing it to buy oil also helps.

Precisely. Holding an official currency gives you the ability to stop the government from putting you in prison for nonpayment of taxes. This is a real tangible value that is a sort of baseline value store for official currencies that does not exist for other currencies.

So, it's just a combination of money = power, and "All power comes from the end of a gun."

Re: Javascript Bitcoin Miner

#134

Post by jpr »

hmottestad wrote: post #96
ghshephard wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically - your example speaks against itself. 100GB Drive is a very precise and agreed upon way of referring to a drive - it means 1x10^11 bytes. 93.1 GiB drive is unusual - we don't typically use powers of 2 when referring to drive length - so if you really mean 93.1 GiB, then it's important you call it out as such, or people (storage admins, driver manufacturers, and operating system developers) will understand…

I thought this was the common way (gibi that is) to refer to harddrives in the OS, I thought that that was the reason harddrives were 100gb when i bought them but only showed up as 93gb on my computer.

Yet another case where "the common way" is wrong and disgusting. Nothing new here.

Re: Javascript Bitcoin Miner

#135

Post by iwwr »

stcredzero wrote: post #133
jellicle wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely. Holding an official currency gives you the ability to stop the government from putting you in prison for nonpayment of taxes. This is a real tangible value that is a sort of baseline value store for official currencies that does not exist for other currencies.

So, it's just a combination of money = power, and "All power comes from the end of a gun."

Power doesn't come from the gun, but from public legitimacy. In the same manner that it would be considered legitimate for someone to defend themselves with a gun.

Re: Javascript Bitcoin Miner

#137

Post by rmc »

nicpottier wrote: post #120
rmc wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you could turn out a bitcoin per day per player" Can't be done. According to this BitCoin calculator[1] you need to generate 245 Mhashes/sec (mega-hashes per second) to generate 1 bitcoin per day today. (Remeber that number will go up as time goes on) I assume that calculator is for 24/7 calculation (which you won't get with gamers), let's assume they are hardcore and play 6 hours per day, every day. You can't de…

Nice number crunching.. But then let's reassess this 1 BT/Day thing. That's $8 a day right now, you'd be pretty pissed paying $8/day for most any game. What if we said 1 BT/month instead? Then all your numbers kind of point to that being pretty feasible no? If I'm reading your calculations right, then a gamer with one GPU would generate 2 BTs per month.

Except when someone on your games forum points out how players can get a 25% increase in graphics quality (By going from 80% GPU power to 100% GPU power) by stopping a certain process (your BitCoin miner). Hardcore games are going to care about that kind of numbers.

I think miners also need to download a lot of data initially (i think 500GB). Mining might require network access which has a negative impact on network latency, and a negative impact on most real time MMOs.

i.e. there are also a whole pile reasons why running a miner would pissed off your paying customers.

Re: Javascript Bitcoin Miner

#138

Post by MicahWedemeyer »

rmc wrote: post #58
rudiger wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, regular CPU miners are nearly 1,000 times slower than GPU miners. I wouldn't be surprised if a JavaScript miner was several orders of magnitude slower than that (ie. a million times slower than GPU miners). What about using gamers' excess GPU to mine Bitcoins in an installable massively-multiplayer game? Is anyone trying this?

If you control a massively multiplayer game you probably get more money from the player subscriptions.

Agreed. I'm amazed at the people drooling over the bitcoins they could make when generating actual dollars seems so much easier, especially once you're assuming such "trivials" as millions of users and pageviews each month.

Re: Javascript Bitcoin Miner

#139

Post by rudiger »

rmc wrote: post #137
nicpottier wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice number crunching.. But then let's reassess this 1 BT/Day thing. That's $8 a day right now, you'd be pretty pissed paying $8/day for most any game. What if we said 1 BT/month instead? Then all your numbers kind of point to that being pretty feasible no? If I'm reading your calculations right, then a gamer with one GPU would generate 2 BTs per month.

Except when someone on your games forum points out how players can get a 25% increase in graphics quality (By going from 80% GPU power to 100% GPU power) by stopping a certain process (your BitCoin miner). Hardcore games are going to care about that kind of numbers. I think miners also need to download a lot of data initially (i think 500GB). Mining might require network access which has a negative impact on network…

Well, a Bitcoin-mining MMO game probably should be free. It would have a larger install-base, and people would be more tolerant of a miner running in the background.

Also, MMO games generally have pretty low graphics requirements (to appeal to the widest possible install-base), so a lot of gamers have excess GPU that could be used for mining.

Re: Javascript Bitcoin Miner

#140

Post by vabole »

wmf wrote: post #127
vabole wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would a scenario of such financial attack look like? Suppose I had $100M - twice the bitcoin market cap. What would I be able to do to destroy the bitcoin? I can think of ways to manipulate bitcoin market with large sums of money, but nothing that would make bitcoin unusable.

You'd buy as many BTC as you can (probably slowly over time), then sell them all at once for a very low price. Momentum traders would help you by also selling their BTC when the price starts dropping.

This is the strategy of cornering the market and according to wikipedia [1] "very few attempts to corner the market have ever succeeded; instead, most of these attempted corners have tended to break themselves spontaneously"

In fact, I think such attack would only create a short term volatility spike but make bitcoin market sturdier in a long term.

In first phase of the attack you would pour in huge amounts of liquidity which would attract more people to bitcoin market.

In the selling phase of the attack you would cause a temporary market panic but only for as long as you sell. And if bitcoin market players managed to find out about what you are doing, they would profit from it.

Finally, when you are out of money, the market would return to its normal course.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornering_the_market

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