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Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

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131–140 of 209 posts

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before wall street involvement there was a single fork of Bitcoin that was a viable currency with low transaction fees. After Wall Street involvement there are at least 3 forks, the biggest of which had fees spiking at 60 USD per transaction making it nonviable for anything but speculators, and the others having very low adoption. The protocol was decentralized but enough of the community that controlled it was bough…

Unused blockchains have no / low transaction fees. >When people started using Bitcoin, fees went up! That's how it is supposed to work.

“The threshold should probably be lower than it currently is. I don't think the threshold should ever be 0. We should always allow at least some free transactions.” -Satoshi Nakamoto

The p2p electronic cash system I signed up for in June 2010 is not working “how it is supposed to work”. $7.77 average transaction fee? Why not try raising the block size to even 2MB? That would do nothing to hurt decentralization. And do you really think an asset currently worth $500B needs to incentivize people to keep it working?!

“I would never spend $100/yr to validate/store transactions and keep my Bitcoin investment working unless I can make a profit on that $100/yr on fees!”

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#132
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin adoption was growing and working well for monetary transfer but its capacity was throttled to encourage use of an unproven technology, the lightning network. The claim, as far as understand it, is that Blockstream supported this plan, anticipating its failure, while working on its own replacement technology, Liquid. Ironically, both liquid and lightning appear to be failing. Nb, both grubles and nullc have so…

That doesn't answer my initial question, how is blockstream supposed to monetize lightning, or anything for that matter? >The claim, as far as understand it, is that Blockstream supported this plan, anticipating its failure, while working on its own replacement technology, Liquid. I took a quick skim of blockstream's materials on liquid, and it sounds like it's something totally different to lightning? They describe…

The claim is not that Blockstream intended to profit from Lightning. Rather they used the promise of Lightning to throttle Bitcoin, in order to profit from Liquid.

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#133
post #126
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those that don’t know nullc is Greg Maxwell, a former Blockstream employee. He is infamous in crypto circles.

Since you apparently think it's no big deal to go around doxing people (as you've attempted multiple times in this thread), perhaps you'd care to disclose your name and which parties you work for?

Perhaps you'd be better off posting from one of your alternate accounts if you want to remain incognito: [redacted]

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, okay, what makes BTC inherently worth anything, then? Who cares that someone, somewhere, some time ago, solved some useless math problem? Why dedicate the equivalent of 7 nuclear power plants' worth of electricity[0] to it, when we could use that electricity to offset fossil fuel consumption? I have literally have yet to have anyone explain this adequately beyond the level of "there's a market for it, so, obvio…

There’s lots of things worth lots of money that don’t have much use value. So yes, in a market, the definition of price/value is generally where supply and demand meet. As for why people currently /want/ bitcoin, I assume some people find it a good speculation instrument, some people hope that it will be a more stable store of value than fiat currencies, some people have political reasons for wanting to own some, som…

This is roughly what I've been telling the HODLers among my friends and acquaintances for years: there is no intrinsic, fundamental reason why BTC has value. It has value because people say it has value. And, if that sounds awfully like the "fiat currency" they tend to heap so much derision on, well, it should.

The USD is nothing more than an "economy token" to show how much one is winning capitalism. Likewise, BTC is some sort of economy token, but I'm not sure what it means. I'm sure the bottom will fall out of BTC far sooner than the USD, and I will welcome that day, because then we can repurpose the electrical power that runs the BTC network toward productive uses, rather than propping up some financialized mirage.

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#135
post #84
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any additional value of bcash over bitcoin. Eth and Monero I agree though, each of them bring fundamental values additionally to btc.

I'm curious why you chose to use the term "bcash" to refer to BCH. No exchanges or mainstream projects use that term to refer to BCH. As far as I'm aware it's primarily used as a pejorative, so it seems strange that you'd use it here. As far as BCH's additional value: I'd suggest researching the block size debate. This debate is BCH's entire reason for existing. This article [1] from 2016 by Mike Hearn contains a goo…

Its authors, original funders, and most exchanges originally referred to it as "BCC" which was, unfortunately, also the symbol for the Bitconnect ponzi scheme.

"Bitcoin Cash" is both a mouthful and enabler of outright fraudulent behaviour, where people are sold BCH and think they got Bitcoin at a really good price (was more common in the past but still happens now). Just about every business that accepts Bitcoin payments has continual problems with people sending BCH because they thought they had and were sending Bitcoin and BCH copied Bitcoin's address format.

In any other field a knock-off-name like "Bitcoin Cash" would be knocked flat as a trademark infringement, so the public is atypically prepared to protect itself from it.

So you can imagine that many Bitcoiners are not eager to use a purposefully deceptive name that has already created a lot of problems for actual users.

Plus in many people's view Bcash is earnestly a better name, but due to weird symmetry breaking and hateful cult like behaviour means that even though it's a perfectly fine name the BCH pumpers go all RMS-whining-about-GNU/Linux over any use of it which is just amusing.

> He ended up quitting development of Bitcoin

You've seen his side. For an uncharitable take on his contributions:

Mike's sum total contributions to the development of the bitcoin software were a half dozen commits, most of which were trivial string changes. ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1337008.0 )

Mike Hearn has a long history advocating for user hostile features in free software, for example he lobbied the Tor project extensively to add censorship. He pushed for adding centralizing features in Bitcoin like blocking all tor peers, phoning home, etc. He was a former employee of QinetiQ, a R&D organization for British intelligence and a system he created at google turned up in the snowden documents as one whos data was being leaked to the british government, shortly after that he parted ways with google. His long term view for Bitcoin security is that it would depend on (government backed) trusted institutions.

Hearn was always largely cultural outsider to Bitcoin-- which many Bitcoin users were wary of, not just on the tech side but in the community in general. There is nothing wrong with reading his perspective, but you should understand some of the context for it.

[I'm aware that this perspective is arguably not the most 'fair'-- e.g. pointing out he worked for British intelligence when I have no reason to think his efforts to centralized Bitcoin were due to anything but his own personal fetish for authority-- but I think it's a good example of how far apart culturally he was from most Bitcoiners. It's also a bit ironic: some of the attacks cited in this thread accuse me/blockstream/bitcoin-devs of being intelligence agents, but they happily ignore the person we know worked in signals intelligence. In any case, unlike the attacks that he and his supporters here lob at me, they're not falsehoods. I'm happy to support them with links.]

> Succinctly, BCH is the continuation of big-blocker's vision of the Bitcoin experiment

I think that's a largely correct statement. But what that experiment shows is telling. BCH's usage is insubstantial compared to Bitcoin (even though the way it was launched forced exchanges almost universally to adopt it). As predicted it is completely unable to secure itself using fees (it typically generates less than $1 per block in fees), making it dependant on continued inflation to pay for security. Not only does the usage not exist, but it has also failed economically in the market: It has lost ~90% of its value in USD terms, and ~95% of its peak value compared Bitcoin. It currently trades at 1.2% of Bitcoin's value after years of almost monotone decline after its first few months.

[It also, sadly, is not a pure realization of the Big Block experiment. Acknowledging the tradeoffs highlighted by the Bitcoin developers, they have continued to limit the blocksize in BCH (though to levels a few times higher than Bitcoin) and introduced many other questionable and controversial changes, spawning multiple additional incompatible forks. Their changes also include an "automatic checkpoints" mechanism that totally breaks the proof of work security model. Weirdly, the "big block vision" is probably most faithfully followed by "BSV", which is a system created and promoted by people that few would disagree are outright scammers, so it too is going nowhere]

I think it's fine and good that people experiment with things (even where I think that the outcome is obvious), the world is only improved by that. But fraudulently claiming the system "is" bitcoin, or spreading malicious, false, and defamatory claims about their competition and critics and engaging in outright harassment in an effort to justify and promote their tokens is really uncool and shouldn't be rewarded.

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In 2021 So they are still putting money into the project and promising things in the future. Years ago, before venture capital took over BTC, I could buy games on Steam with Bitcoin. Can I buy video games with Lightning? https://blog.kraken.com/post/7225/a-need-for-speed-kraken-to... > https://coingate.com/lightning-network Ok. What can I actually buy with it? There's tons of venture capital going into this project…

You could buy Steam games years ago because Bitcoin volume was low. Just try some math: How large would blocks need to be to handle just 50% of Visa's current US transaction rate?

VISA says they do 150M transactions per day. I’m not sure how many are US, but let’s say half. Avg BTC transaction is 250 bytes, so you’d need about 10GB a day (about 70MB) blocks to do what you propose.

A 3TB drive is $39 on Amazon right now. So maybe 13c a day in storage costs to run half of visa’s US transactions.

Not raising Bitcoin’s block size has got to be THE most insane technical decision in modern history.

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#137
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to note: the "Bitcoin was hijacked by " is a running joke at this point and not to be taken seriously. Ask anyone to provide verifiable proof of this and they will respond with hyperbole or conspiracy theory.

I'm seeing a lot of valid concerns and criticisms of Blockstream's actions and methods. I dont think they can be dismissed with ad hominems.

> I'm seeing a lot of valid concerns and criticisms of Blockstream's actions and methods

I've carefully reviewed each post in the thread and cannot find that. Instead, I see a couple vague and clearly false allegations which are unambiguously debunked.

What specifically are you referring to?

For the avoidance of confusion, the anonymous maintainer of "Bitcoin Cash" (a deceptively named Bitcoin clone) is named "Freetrader". Are you they?

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#138
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are protecting themselves to Not being complicit, or better not to look complicit to the SEC.

Oh okay. That makes more sense. Still a bit weird that it's out of a sense of self preservation instead of caring that it was potentially immoral in the first place.

Maybe do a bit more research then.

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#139
post #133
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you apparently think it's no big deal to go around doxing people (as you've attempted multiple times in this thread), perhaps you'd care to disclose your name and which parties you work for?

Perhaps you'd be better off posting from one of your alternate accounts if you want to remain incognito: [redacted]

Thanks for noting this, that is some serious scheming, down to inserting typos to disguise talking to himself with sockpuppet accounts.

Edit: thanks for the downvote, Greg.

Edit2: this was the link: [redacted]

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#140
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The goal of this is to build an unnecessary product they can charge for on a second level. [...] Hence the memes: Lightning only 18 months away, after 3 years of "development." Can you elaborate on this? Isn't lightning free and open source? I'm not sure how that's going to be monetized.

Bitcoin adoption was growing and working well for monetary transfer but its capacity was throttled to encourage use of an unproven technology, the lightning network. The claim, as far as understand it, is that Blockstream supported this plan, anticipating its failure, while working on its own replacement technology, Liquid. Ironically, both liquid and lightning appear to be failing. Nb, both grubles and nullc have so…

> Bitcoin adoption was growing and working well for monetary transfer but its capacity was throttled to encourage use of an unproven technology, the lightning network.

What? Bitcoin's capacity has been limited its entire life, the limits were coded in by Bitcoin's creator. The limits are integral to protecting Bitcoin's decentralization, and have nothing in particular to do with lightning. Alternative blockchains without functional limits such as "BSV" are so bloated that it is practically unreasonable to run nodes, leaving participants blinding trusting third parties.

These trade-offs were well understood long long ago (e.g. https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Scalability&action=h... or https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3118.msg44789#msg447... or https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2500.msg34211#msg342...).

Liquid isn't some replacement technology for Bitcoin, it's something it's a distributed-centeralized (federated) system that can do things Bitcoin and other completely decenteralized systems cannot do like offer instantaneous settlement. It trades off decentralization to for latency. When users have funds in exchange they've already substantially lost their decentralization benefits, for for e.g. rapid arb between exchanges this tradeoff is probably a good one.

Bitcoin gives people the freedom to use their money in a bunch of different ways.

> nullc have some close relationship with Blockstream.

I haven't have any relationship at all with blockstream for over three years now.

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