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Unlimited is like a Ponzi Scheme

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Re: Unlimited is like a Ponzi Scheme

#131

Post by Dylan16807 »

fuzxi wrote: post #127
bayindirh wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people even hunt for "Unlimited for life" early adopter plans and grab them, then abuse them. One of the backup services imposed a 12TB limit. Evernote reverted their unlimited data storage pledge, Google retired unlimited data in GSuite. I cannot say all of them due to hoarders but, Evernote CEO openly said that "People tried to zip and upload their backups to our servers. We're not that big".

>Google retired unlimited data in GSuite They actually did not. The $12/user/month plan with an unenforced data limit was rebranded as the $20/month Enterprise Standard plan with unlimited storage explicitly allowed. Existing users are currently grandfathered in at the $12 price but may be forced to "upgrade" at some point in the future.

"Customers that have 5 or more End Users will receive a total amount of Google Drive storage equal to 5TB times the number of End Users, with more storage available at Google's discretion upon reasonable request to Google." is not very comforting language.

Re: Unlimited is like a Ponzi Scheme

#132

Post by fuzxi »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #131
fuzxi wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Google retired unlimited data in GSuite They actually did not. The $12/user/month plan with an unenforced data limit was rebranded as the $20/month Enterprise Standard plan with unlimited storage explicitly allowed. Existing users are currently grandfathered in at the $12 price but may be forced to "upgrade" at some point in the future.

"Customers that have 5 or more End Users will receive a total amount of Google Drive storage equal to 5TB times the number of End Users, with more storage available at Google's discretion upon reasonable request to Google." is not very comforting language.

I think you're looking at the Business plan. Enterprise is separate. You can't get an Enterprise plan without contacting Sales unless you're grandfathered in.

Re: Unlimited is like a Ponzi Scheme

#133

Post by taeric »

fuzxi wrote: post #130
tomcam wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that’s like saying you are frustrated by auto companies because your car isn’t free and doesn’t last unlimited miles. Don’t you normally pay for things?

No, it isn't like that at all. Software doesn't translate to physical analogies well, but a closer analogy is saying that he's frustrated because his "Unlimited Miles" gasoline actually only lasts for 100 miles, then he has to buy more.

This probably translates well to electric vehicles. If you got one that was an "all day" battery, but only if you limit it to two hours of driving.

Probably works for a lot of commuters. Quite cumbersome for those it doesn't work for.

Re: Unlimited is like a Ponzi Scheme

#134

Post by Can_Not »

tomcam wrote: post #86
taeric wrote: post #66

I'm hitting this with internet. So frustrating that for most places "unlimited data" is about 20 gigs.

But that’s like saying you are frustrated by auto companies because your car isn’t free and doesn’t last unlimited miles. Don’t you normally pay for things?

If the auto company promised unlimited miles then set up road blocks after 20 miles of usage, then it's exactly like you said, minus the random implication that he doesn't pay for things like the unlimited we are talking about paying for.

Re: Unlimited is like a Ponzi Scheme

#135

Post by Dylan16807 »

fuzxi wrote: post #132
Dylan16807 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Customers that have 5 or more End Users will receive a total amount of Google Drive storage equal to 5TB times the number of End Users, with more storage available at Google's discretion upon reasonable request to Google." is not very comforting language.

I think you're looking at the Business plan. Enterprise is separate. You can't get an Enterprise plan without contacting Sales unless you're grandfathered in.

https://workspace.google.com/terms/user_features.html

I'm looking at Enterprise.

> You can't get an Enterprise plan without contacting Sales unless you're grandfathered in.

Having to contact sales and prove myself is not exactly the same as being retired, but it's pretty similar in a lot of ways.

Re: Unlimited is like a Ponzi Scheme

#136

Post by fuzxi »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #135
fuzxi wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're looking at the Business plan. Enterprise is separate. You can't get an Enterprise plan without contacting Sales unless you're grandfathered in.

https://workspace.google.com/terms/user_features.html I'm looking at Enterprise. > You can't get an Enterprise plan without contacting Sales unless you're grandfathered in. Having to contact sales and prove myself is not exactly the same as being retired, but it's pretty similar in a lot of ways.

Oh I see. So it's actually the same as the old plan (unenforced storage limit), but without the (also unenforced) minimum of 5 paying users.

I also just read that you can in fact get an Enterprise plan without contacting Sales by buying a Business plan and then upgrading through the admin console.

So maybe less retired, more downgraded.

Re: Unlimited is like a Ponzi Scheme

#137

Post by foolmeonce »

giantg2 wrote: post #118
foolmeonce wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It fits the flow model of a ponzi scheme: At each future stage a growth of fresh input is required to make up for a growing backlog of past transactions. Since the world is finite, the available growth must come to an end while the back log does not. (A possible disagreement with this is if expected media quality/size is growing in size similar to Moore's law.) The author makes their own distinctions in the article,…

Perhaps you can correct the definition on wikipedia then. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme A more appropriate title could be "Unlimited Data Storage is Dependent on New User Adoption". No reason to use a title that doesn't fit and is just sensationalized marketing.

Wikipedia's definition is great but is naturally focused on the social details rather than its nature as an inherently devolving system of resource management. Still it's coverage of how they fall apart is good AFA the system problems.

I suppose I should update more wikipedia entries, for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_tree

References an early example of such a problem article: "Binary Tree". An outrageous use of metaphor that should clearly have been named "Data is in no way an oak".

Re: Unlimited is like a Ponzi Scheme

#138

Post by ZoomZoomZoom »

jamiek88 wrote: post #94
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> 100 GB is actually an awful lot of data, Absolutely not. It's about 10-15 average photoshoots (for arbitrary RAW image size of 25Mb) and no place for processed images or anything else.

Yes but that’s not typical. What’s typical is grandmas shitty jpegs

Don't know about your experience, but in mine, grandmas of today are rather trigger-happy. Smartphone photos aren't raw, but it's still megabytes of data for each photo.

Re: Unlimited is like a Ponzi Scheme

#139

Post by djeiasbsbo »

bayindirh wrote: post #49
oefrha wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've long suspected that r/DataHoarder is why we can't have nice things, i.e. cheap online data storage that is slightly subsidized by the average user who only stores a little. Thanks for confirming from the point of view of a major storage provider.

I follow r/Datahoarder for best practices and methods for getting my own stuff (like HumbleBundle or purchased eBook libraries) to my own local storage but, some of them really abuse online storage providers. I cringe sometimes reading all the posts. Why on the world someone try to mirror nearly everything to somewhere like Scrat from the Ice Age?

I understand and while we all understand that it isn't technically "unlimited", they still are just using the service they pay for in the way it was advertised to them. If it isn't unlimited and you don't want to deal with that 0.1% of users, do not advertise it that way.

Again, I think it's ridiculous to use online storage services in that way but still, is it really fair to blame the consumer here?

Re: Unlimited is like a Ponzi Scheme

#140

Post by giantg2 »

foolmeonce wrote: post #137
giantg2 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you can correct the definition on wikipedia then. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme A more appropriate title could be "Unlimited Data Storage is Dependent on New User Adoption". No reason to use a title that doesn't fit and is just sensationalized marketing.

Wikipedia's definition is great but is naturally focused on the social details rather than its nature as an inherently devolving system of resource management. Still it's coverage of how they fall apart is good AFA the system problems. I suppose I should update more wikipedia entries, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_tree References an early example of such a problem article: "Binary Tree". An outrag…

Nice strawman argument.

The word "binary" is a modifier of the word "tree". Anyone with a basic understanding of English knows that a binary tree is different from an oak tree. The modifier in "ponzi scheme" is "ponzi". The very definition stated that it is a scheme related to financial investment and returns, which doesn't fit the situation in the article.

If you compare the binary tree and ponzi scheme examples, you will find them quite similar. You have base word (tree/scheme) and a modifier word (binary/ponzi). So your tree example is actually a great point supporting my argument - this may be a scheme, but it's not a ponzi scheme.

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