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Johnny.Decimal

johnnydecimal.com

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Re: Johnny.Decimal

#131
post #56

How about a filesystem that just provided tagging as a first class citizen?

(I'm the eponymous 'Johnny'.) I don't find tags useful for many of the same reasons that I invented this system. What's the tag for the payroll schedule? Is it 'Payroll'? 'Finance'? Something else? Who manages the tags? Can anyone add one? Tags need managing just as much as -- if not more than -- a well-organised folder structure. Tags aren't just some free magical way to organise stuff ... otherwise I dare say they'…

Some observations, and thanks: -

"What is the tag?" is a category error. It's "what are the tags?" Tags are not paths.

Is it Payroll? Yes. Is it Finance? Yes, if that's how your org does things. Is it other things besides? Yes. A "superseded" tag would likely be useful to many organisations.

The idea of tags as opposed to paths is that a leaf object can have lots of them.

Of course tags are not free. The question is, does the value they bring outweigh their costs? Like you, I think the answer is usually "no". People suck at tagging.

If tags are to be used, "who manages the tags" is a key question that needs to be explicitly asked and answered at the same time as, or before, deciding your categories.

However the same applies to managing the "chart of accounts" that Johnny Decimal requires. The structure that is best for the organisation almost certainly won't be optimal for any given staff member. So management is required.

These are both stewardship problems.

The Johnny Decimal website is silent on the subject of stewardship. Here I want to focus on two aspects: keeping things working, and managing succession.

Keeping things working: using a gardening metaphor, is planting and weeding, re-potting, trimming and pruning and harvesting, turning over the garden beds, and so on. Like gardening, this part of records stewardship is best carried out regularly and frequently.

Obsoleting things is a key part of this. Contra the poster above who says "just delete it"[1], often you have to keep no-longer-current versions of filed objects around for a long time, for some combination of reasons: the maintenance and repair manual for a machine tool model we stopped selling 20 years ago, minutes of board meetings from an equivalent time ago, commemorative photos, old logo artwork, client records (if, say, you're a dentist) for the life of the client, even if you haven't seen them for a decade, ...

Succession is about ensuring groups have the right access, new people belong to the right groups and are properly indoctrinated, and things are handed over when staff leave or change roles, and ex-staff have their access removed; and about revising the structure, ontology, and access rights so that they stay relevant as the organisation they serve changes.

Records management is somewhat like plumbing--good drains, no-one notices; with bad ones, everyone is miserable. And keeping the drains "good" requires work.

The problems that are now universal ("Acme Corp Contract", "Acme Corp Contract - final version", "Acme Corp Contract - final with client revisions", "Acme Corp Contract - senior management approval", "Acme Corp Contract Brian", etc.) have indeed come about because computer-illiterate and filing-illiterate office workers thought the FAT file system (and then NTFS and/or Sharepoint) was a magic, zero-effort substitute for having a system both for keeping records and for training/indoctrinating new staff to keep records properly.

We have had two generations of office workers who have never experienced properly functioning filing systems (except possibly at a university library). Just like people who browse the web without an ad blocker, they don't know any different, so this is an invisible problem to them.

Johnny Decimal is a step towards opening people's eyes (or noses). Thanks for publishing your website!

1. Deleting things that should be deleted is an important skill, but another one is knowing what should not be deleted, but instead moved out of the main stream.

Re: Johnny.Decimal

#132
I like it a lot. The only thing that stops me from using system like this is the fact that I don't care that much if I can find stuff. Or I didn't until recently but I still don't want to acknowledge that this has changed, dunno.

I see a lot of comments claiming that either tags are superior or this is bad because you need an inventory for your system. Both ignore a very real problem: with tags you'll end up with near-identical tags which doesn't really improve your ability to find stuff. You can have a hierarchy of tags, sure, but then once again you need some sort of inventory of tags.

Which brings me to my observation: if you think that tree hierarchy is limiting you and you need free form tags, your hierarchy is probably bad and you're simply tagging things to feel like you're organized.

Re: Johnny.Decimal

#133
post #82
post #40

Well, this was bound to happen one day. This is my site. I guess I’ll read the comments here then go take a bath with a bottle of gin. :-) Edit: yep. As suspected. Let me just say this, if I may: 1. You don’t have to like every idea, but please consider that some people do . 2. I’ve been using this successfully for a decade. I’m using it right now to organise a project. My boss loves me for it, because guess what? We…

Awesome privacy policy! https://johnnydecimal.com/privacy/

Looks not valid in terms of GDPR. What are my rights and in which paragraph are those rights stated? How long is data stored? Which log files of my visit arise (just my IP and date of visit? Who hosts that site, if it's not a machine you physically own? Do they store that data? More data, like browser or OS version?) You are usually allowed to use that data for debugging and intrusion detection etc. but you still need to mention it, if that data is collected, even by a third party you hired.

Re: Johnny.Decimal

#134
> “Hey Kristy, where can I find the payroll schedule?” > “Twelve dot oh-three.”

"In payroll (pause) schedule" (which you'd interpret as /payroll/schedule)

Re: Johnny.Decimal

#136
post #125
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, except for the part where they immediately contradict themselves: > If you choose to give me your email address, I will treat it with the utmost respect. I’ll never spam you, or give it to anyone else. > In 2019 I moved from Mailchimp, whose business model started to make me uncomfortable, to Buttondown. It’s run by one guy who I trust to do the right thing.

Are you arguing that using a service provider to send email is "giving email adresses away"? If so, how do you send your email? (I guess you could host your own mail server on-premises, but is that the bar?)

I'm not arguing that, it is literally factually true. He says he won't give it to anyone else, then goes on to list the person he's giving it to.

Re: Johnny.Decimal

#137
Such systems help you get the structure of things up into YOUR head, so it becomes a mental ladder for YOU. The main shared network folder for my company is organised like this, it makes it easy to figure out "do we have X/anything about X", and it makes it easy to figure out where to put stuff. We have other systems, e.g. a wiki, but cruft accumulates in the wiki, because no employee can grasp what's in it, the wiki is just a black bag of "lots of stuff someone put in there at some point". Because the clutter isn't visible, nobody feels an urge to clean it up.

Re: Johnny.Decimal

#138
> It’s very unlikely you will end up with a hundred categories.

The Internet Advertising Bureau uses a similar structure to categorise things. For example:

- IAB20 Travel

- IAB20-1 Adventure Travel

- IAB20-2 Africa

The problem is that sometimes you cannot find an appropriate category despite there being hundreds of them defined.

Re: Johnny.Decimal

#139

Here's the counter argument: https://heyluddite.com/post/4043411544/how-to-name-folders

Counter counter argument:

New Folder New Folder(2) New Folder(3) New Folder(4) New Folder(5) New Folder(6) New Folder(7)

Muscle memory can be important as well. If I'm going through the Finder/Explorer, being able to pick the 4th item down and having it be the one I'm concerned about is helpful.

Johnny Decimal also helps with avoiding having too wide of a hierarchy, as well as having too deep of a hierarchy. Can't be more than 10 folders wide at the area or category levels, and can't be more than 4 levels deep.

Re: Johnny.Decimal

#140
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “What happens when I get to 99?” > You never will. And if you do, the category you defined was almost certainly too broad. Split it up.[0] Alternatively, your IDs are too narrow, so you should be stuffing more into each ID folder. That is, to modify an example from the website: You have "14.01 1601 Timesheet". But you have a new ID for every pay period. So you have "14.02 1602 Timesheet". Better would just be have…

> Better would just be have "14.01 Timesheets", and each timesheet gets the year and week prepended to it. This is what I do. Isn’t the site clear? I (still, 5 years later) have `14.01 Timesheets`, and within there I have `yymm` folders which contain each entry. 14.02 is still free. So yep, a ‘wasted’ category there ... but I have a hundred to play with, and really rarely use more than about 30 in a complete system.

I, uh... first modified an example, then found the actual example, changed the text, but not all the way. That's why it appears near verbatim from your website.
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