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Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

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Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#131

Post by musicale »

HeWhoLurksLate wrote: post #125
FireBeyond wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In 2012, Apple launched the MacBook Pro a with "retina" display. It took _years_ for non-Apple alternatives to materialize. In fact, the only comparable laptop display in existence today would probably be the Dell XPS 17" UHD+ (which I own, and it's excellent). Uhh, both Sony and Dell had 1080p, 1200 vertical and then QHD laptops in form factors down to 13" before Apple. I owned both before I moved to Apple myself.…

Wow, people talking about getting a 512gb SSD in their laptop for $2.5K as a good deal is kinda amazing- I think my $450 HP Pavilion with a 1050 and AMD 3500H might just be faster in every single way (but it definitely has lower build quality...) It's amazing how far we've come

I paid a fortune for flash storage from 2009 to 2016 and it was totally worth it.

There are some technological improvements that are so transformative (wifi, flash storage, high-resolution/"retina" display, LTE data, all-day battery life) that once you try them you never want to go back.

Then there are the changes that make you go "hmm..." (butterfly keyboard, touchbar without a hardware escape key, giant trackpad with broken palm rejection...)

Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#132

Post by musicale »

floatboth wrote: post #126
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It seems to me that Microsoft really makes no effort to improve subtle aspects of Windows and hardware integration. Latest Windows 10 iteration is by far the snappiest OS I've used in a long time since it uses GPU acceleration for the desktop window manager. You can check this in task manager. The icing on the cake, if you gave a laptop with 2 GPUS(Optimus) is when you can run a demanding 3D app like a game in windo…

> since it uses GPU acceleration for the desktop window manager Uh, Windows started doing that in Vista .

Oddly enough a number of good Windows features showed up first in Vista. I think people just weren't ready for the barrage of security permission dialogs and having their printer drivers broken. ;-)

Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#133

Post by DiabloD3 »

floatboth wrote: post #126
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It seems to me that Microsoft really makes no effort to improve subtle aspects of Windows and hardware integration. Latest Windows 10 iteration is by far the snappiest OS I've used in a long time since it uses GPU acceleration for the desktop window manager. You can check this in task manager. The icing on the cake, if you gave a laptop with 2 GPUS(Optimus) is when you can run a demanding 3D app like a game in windo…

> since it uses GPU acceleration for the desktop window manager Uh, Windows started doing that in Vista .

WDDM's ability to do that has been progressively enhanced since Vista. Today's OSX is about where Windows was during Vista, and it really shows on Macs that are older, but still supported, usually shown via latency in normal situations, eg, just moving a window around on the screen (something every OS gets correct except OSX).

Today's WDDM, however, is snappy as hell, even on my MBP from 2012, but OSX is, and always will be, a sluggish nightmare. Intel GPU alone, no Nvidia or AMD DGPU, old enough that it has no hardware scheduling features, isn't DX12 compliant, but with Win10, its still is just as fast as my brand new workstation build when it comes to just being a plain ordinary desktop.

Apple needs to fix their development culture internally, and it strongly shows in their software product quality. Sad, because the M1 seems like a cool chunk of hardware, could be a real winner if it wasn't held down by OSX.

Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#134

Post by Qerub »

deergomoo wrote: post #98
qubitcoder wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just in recent weeks: - M1 [0] - A14 in the iPhone 12 Pro (first 5-nanometer chip with 11.8 billion transistors) [1] Previously, they introduced the first 64-bit CPU in a mobile device, which stunned competitors at the time [2]. Not to mention their excellence in hi-dpi displays. In 2012, Apple launched the MacBook Pro a with "retina" display. It took _years_ for non-Apple alternatives to materialize. In fact, the on…

> In 2012, Apple launched the MacBook Pro a with "retina" display. It took _years_ for non-Apple alternatives to materialize. Ironically this is now somewhere they could stand to improve. The MacBook displays are excellent, particularly when it comes to colour reproduction, but for the past several years they default to a scaled display mode. For anyone not familiar, the frame buffer is a higher resolution, and scale…

> […] but for the past several years they default to a scaled display mode. For anyone not familiar, the frame buffer is a higher resolution, and scaled down for the display, trading sharpness for screen space.

My understanding of how scaled resolutions in macOS work is that graphics are always rendered at the display's native resolution. The scaling factor only decides the sizing of the rendered elements. Can you point to some documentation that supports your view? I'd like to learn if I'm wrong and understand all the details.

Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#135

Post by skavi »

crazygringo wrote: post #61
skavi wrote: post #6

> This EDR display philosophy is so important to Apple that they are willing to spend battery life on it. When you map “white” down to gray, you have to drive the LED backlight brighter for the same perceived screen brightness, using more power. Apple has your laptop doing this all the time, on the off chance that some HDR pixels come along to occupy that headroom. This is a bit misleading. The backlight isn’t at a h…

> just whenever any HDR encoded videos or EDR apps are open Yup, I think this has to be the case. But the crazy thing is, I can't perceive any shift in UX brightness whatsoever, even a flicker, when I open/close an EDR video. I would have thought that there would be some slight mismatch at the moment the backlight is brightened and pixels are darkened -- whether it would be a close but not perfect brightness match, o…

Yup, very impressive how well Apple has synced everything up. Definitely an advantage of controlling the whole stack.

Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#136

Post by robertoandred »

FireBeyond wrote: post #110
qubitcoder wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just in recent weeks: - M1 [0] - A14 in the iPhone 12 Pro (first 5-nanometer chip with 11.8 billion transistors) [1] Previously, they introduced the first 64-bit CPU in a mobile device, which stunned competitors at the time [2]. Not to mention their excellence in hi-dpi displays. In 2012, Apple launched the MacBook Pro a with "retina" display. It took _years_ for non-Apple alternatives to materialize. In fact, the on…

> In 2012, Apple launched the MacBook Pro a with "retina" display. It took _years_ for non-Apple alternatives to materialize. In fact, the only comparable laptop display in existence today would probably be the Dell XPS 17" UHD+ (which I own, and it's excellent). Uhh, both Sony and Dell had 1080p, 1200 vertical and then QHD laptops in form factors down to 13" before Apple. I owned both before I moved to Apple myself.…

1080, 1200, and 1440 are all of course smaller than the 1880 vertical resolution on the 15” MBP.

But it’s not just the resolution, it’s that Apple made such a high resolution usable via 2x rendering, and did so immediately for the entire system and all applications.

Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#137

Post by dylan604 »

ashtonkem wrote: post #56
dijit wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the XDR came out it was competing with monitors that were 40,000 USD and up. (With some compromises like the stand which is just an art piece and the viewing angles being squiff). If the competition is now priced competitively then that’s very good for consumers.

The stand makes a bit more sense when you consider this monitor for movie use. Reference monitors need to move from on-site racks for director use, to studio use for editing. The ability to easily detach it from a fixed stand and move it to a cart for on-site use is an important feature. Overkill for developers though.

Maybe in small low-budget indy film making would the director be using the same equipment on set as they would in post. One where the director is also the editor is also the writer is also the producer. You know the ones. Typically, everything on set is a rental. The post studio would have their own equipment fitted for their rooms. I could see maybe a DIT taking their monitor to a cart and then back to a desktop in between gigs, but probably not then.

Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#138

Post by kuschku »

valuearb wrote: post #124
kuschku wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The competition was also before the XDR similarly priced. Asus had 2 or 3 at that price point, and Apple had the XDR. And then there's the Dell UP2718Q, almost entirely the exact same specs, but only 4K, at 1600€. Released 2017, years before the XDR.

I use a UP2718Q every day (used to use two of them). Did you just compare that mediocre POS to an XDR?

They're both IPS panels with locla area dimming, the same amount of halo effect, the same color accuracy, and relatively similar brightness and dpi, especially considering there's a price difference of 4× inbetween.

What's so "mediocre POS" about them in your opinion?

Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#139

Post by dylan604 »

sirn wrote: post #78
blauditore wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is able to set entire new standards of expectation for customers that are _very_ hard for competitors to follow. The cheaper version of this display has a price tag of $5k, the more expensive one $6k. I never spent even remotely as much money on a display, so I cannot speak from first-hand experience. But a quick search for graphics-design displays yields several competitor products that have similar or bette…

The main issue with comparing the spec is the difference are not really shown in these specs, e.g. luminance and chromaticity uniformity (aka Delta E), among other things. Consumer grade monitor usually do not have these, and when combining with wide color gamut and _measured_ color space (not claimed), we're talking about at least higher grade EIZO monitors which are not less than $1k. The monitor that are comparabl…

Random story about routine calibration. The old Sony CRT reference monitors were weird with their calibration as well. Had a 32" 16x9 HD monitor that had the mass of a dying star. It was in a dedicated film xfer/color correction bay. Once installed, it never moved until we moved to a new location. Once in the new location, it had some weird anomalies even after the typical calibration steps. Our Sony tech realized that we had changed the orientation of the monitor 90 degrees. His explanation was that the earth's magnetic fields were the culprit. Rotating the monitor 90 degrees made the issue go away. Don't remember ultimately what the fix was, but it was fixable.

Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#140

Post by Eric_WVGG »

ambicapter wrote: post #107
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has a functional organisation structure which is quite unusual for a corporation of that size. https://hbr.org/2020/11/how-apple-is-organized-for-innovatio...

What are some other companies that also have this structure?

Not many. There was a very good comic about this a few years back. https://ritholtz.com/2013/07/organizational-charts-of-amazon...
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