World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#131

Post by soperj » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 4:59 PM UTC

tashoecraft wrote: post #69

slothtrop wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing's ever enough for vegans. > Would be more interested in seeing more means of producing tasty food without using animals and at reduced costs to the environment. There is increasingly more of that all the time. > On the other hand it just seems like another step into the direction of turning the chickens into optimized food machines. Another step? They aren't getting any more optimized, if anything new availab…

Nothing is ever enough for anyone. Look at any discussion here. "This software should be fully free without ads", "this license isn't permissive enough", it's not distrbuted, it's not blockchain, it is blockchain, it's written in java. And I think it's fine. We need people on the extremes in order to put pressure and advance things, as extremes rarely get implemented, but meeting in the middle does.

How does not writing it in Java advance things?

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#132

Post by cschneid » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 4:59 PM UTC

kaycebasques wrote: post #118

zed88 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moral dilemma that vegans/vegetarians face is at what size we consider them sentient. Does the same apply to the micro-organism that vegans consume everyday on their salad? Or they are simply not sentient enough because we can't see them with naked eyes?

For me it's not about trying to nail down sentience but rather a basic heuristic about the creature's ability to feel pain. If I cut it or take its babies and it produces a response that indicates it doesn't like that, then I don't eat it. Fruits easily pass this test because the plant encourages us to take them (although I recognize that we've gamed that system and it's not like we're hunter gatherers anymore accide…

> although I recognize that we've gamed that system and it's not like we're hunter gatherers anymore accidentally spreading seeds for the plant's benefit

I don't know, I bet the tree's fore-bearers think a tended orchard with consistent water is a pretty sweet deal in exchange for a few apples.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#133

Post by noxer » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

trianglem wrote: post #130

noxer wrote: post #126

Are we just gonna ignore the fact that there definitely is a living chicken inside the egg after 9 days. Sure its probably better kill it as early as possible but "no-kill" is simply a lie. source: https://youtu.be/uE0uKvUbcfw?t=389

It’s the abortion debate but with chickens.

People want it to be but facts are not up for a debate.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#134

Post by golergka » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 5:03 PM UTC

difosfor wrote: post #59

I suppose it's slightly more animal friendly. On the other hand it just seems like another step into the direction of turning the chickens into optimized food machines. Would be more interested in seeing more means of producing tasty food without using animals and at reduced costs to the environment. Working towards one final giant culling of all unnaturally engineered animals and just continuing on with a small numb…

> nor pursue them at large scale unless it's for profit

You, as a consumer, directly dictate to companies what is profitable and what's not by what you choose to buy and what you choose not to buy. Dichotomy of profit and ethics doesn't make any sense: profit is a signal which among other things also includes information about what consumers think if ethical or unethical, and how important it is to them.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#135

Post by cmrdporcupine » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 5:05 PM UTC

The chickens we raise on our hobby farm are "dual purpose" birds in that they are good for both meat and eggs. That is traditionally how all poultry was raised, really, on family farms, etc. Roosters were raised and fattened until a few months in, and then slaughtered and eaten, while a portion of the hens were kept for laying. The meat from roosters isn't as good, but it's frankly fine overall.

There's no reason the meat industry couldn't divert the male chickens into a separate supply chain where they were raised until 6-8 months and then slaughtered and sold as stewing meat or some other (decent tasting) protein product for human consumption. The roosters don't develop aggressive behaviours until much later.

But that would be inefficient by market measures. So it doesn't happen.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#136

Post by war1025 » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 5:05 PM UTC

grawprog wrote: post #129

war1025 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same instinct at play, in my opinion.

Sure, doesn't mean it's anything other than something to make people feel better while changing nothing.

I was just trying to agree with you.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#137

Post by pr0zac » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 5:06 PM UTC

grawprog wrote: post #115

So, they're still culling fertilized eggs with males, they just do it before they hatch now. I guess it's a little more visually appealing to the public, but it literally changes nothing. The same number of chickens are still culled, they still get turned into animal feed. Honestly, what difference does it really make if male chickens are shredded and ground up into feed pre or post hatching? It's the same result in…

Eggs don't feel pain, live chicks do. For some people that is very important, it might not be for you but its a very clear difference.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#138

Post by yboris » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

balabaster wrote: post #72

dzolob wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as animals are treated as commodities instead of sentient beings, yeah, nothing is going to be enough for vegans. Empathy is a great quality to cultivate.

Empathy is great, but unfortunately it's not a fix. There's only so much empathy we can have for the environment around us without giving away everything and getting nothing in return. Having empathy for the needs of your fellow human beings is still empathy, even if it comes at the cost of empathy for animals. Empathy for animals at the cost of empathy for your fellow humans is no more a solution than the other way…

Typically, people who have a higher-than-average concern for the welfare of animals also have a higher-than-average concern for welfare of people. Compassion and empathy seems to grow for both, not be a trade-off.

Compare an analogous concern to the one you raise: "what if caring about people of color comes at the cost of empathy for your fellow whites?"

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#139

Post by noxer » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #135

The chickens we raise on our hobby farm are "dual purpose" birds in that they are good for both meat and eggs. That is traditionally how all poultry was raised, really, on family farms, etc. Roosters were raised and fattened until a few months in, and then slaughtered and eaten, while a portion of the hens were kept for laying. The meat from roosters isn't as good, but it's frankly fine overall. There's no reason the…

>There's no reason the meat industry couldn't....

>But that would be inefficient by market measures.

>No reason

>Gives reason

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#140

Post by cmrdporcupine » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

noxer wrote: post #139

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #135

The chickens we raise on our hobby farm are "dual purpose" birds in that they are good for both meat and eggs. That is traditionally how all poultry was raised, really, on family farms, etc. Roosters were raised and fattened until a few months in, and then slaughtered and eaten, while a portion of the hens were kept for laying. The meat from roosters isn't as good, but it's frankly fine overall. There's no reason the…

>There's no reason the meat industry couldn't.... >But that would be inefficient by market measures. >No reason >Gives reason

I can't help you if you choose to read things that pedantically. Maybe get a job as a lawyer. I guess I need to edit and insert "no technical reason" or "no non-price sensitive reason" in for you?