Vitamin D Supplementation Improves Cognitive Function: 12-month RCT • Hacker News Board

Re: Vitamin D Supplementation Improves Cognitive Function: 12-month RCT

#131

Post by shadowprofile77 » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 9:38 AM UTC

roel_v wrote: post #94

monetus wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For reference: The level of toxicity listed in your link is 60,000IU per day. Fauci said he takes 10,000IU per day. The bottle I purchased recommends 2,000IU per day. Get your blood work done people.

I always see Americans (apologies for making assumptions if you're not) throw around blood testing like it's something trivial and casually done. Here in the Netherlands, it takes a real medical indication and some pushing of a doctor to get any testing done. Alternatively, you use a private testing company that costs 200 to 400 euros for a comprehensive screening. Question to the public in various countries - how ea…

Where I live, you can get just about any blood test you want or heard of done at a days notice (excepting clinically conditional time rubrics for the sake of test accuracy, ie: waiting a couple weeks+ after possible HIV exposure to get an HIV test, that kind of thing) at any one of dozens of private laboratories for extremely reasonable costs. Complete blood profiles go for a little over the equivalent of 25 dollars US and most typical tests are not far below or just above that figure. Exotic tests can get more expensive but rarely exceed a price equivalent to 200 dollars for truly unusual things like specialized checking for exotic tropical diseases.

Socialized health is also available here but with the usual pushing and prodding necessary for anything outside the most basic, routine preventative tests, and slow at that. Advanced countries with socialized healthcare offer wonderful advantages for medical catastrophes and sufferers of chronic illnesses that would be hard to privately insure against, but when it comes to preventative discretionary healthcare, my impression is that they can be awfully bureaucratic (I used to live in Canada).

Re: Vitamin D Supplementation Improves Cognitive Function: 12-month RCT

#132

Post by rocgf » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 9:52 AM UTC

roel_v wrote: post #94

monetus wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For reference: The level of toxicity listed in your link is 60,000IU per day. Fauci said he takes 10,000IU per day. The bottle I purchased recommends 2,000IU per day. Get your blood work done people.

I always see Americans (apologies for making assumptions if you're not) throw around blood testing like it's something trivial and casually done. Here in the Netherlands, it takes a real medical indication and some pushing of a doctor to get any testing done. Alternatively, you use a private testing company that costs 200 to 400 euros for a comprehensive screening. Question to the public in various countries - how ea…

Roughly the same in the UK, at least in my experience.

In Romania, getting blood work is very common, even for trivial things. A few years back it was also very cheap, about 20-30 euros for the basics.

Re: Vitamin D Supplementation Improves Cognitive Function: 12-month RCT

#133

Post by jb1991 » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 9:59 AM UTC

AntiImperialist wrote: post #87

shajznnckfke wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans in Northern Europe have adapted to those conditions with very light skin that maximizes sunlight exposure. > And how do you that for a fact? It's nutrition science. It's not reliable. These numbers of how much we need has been changing for as long as I can remember. The changing numbers are why I gave such a wide range. Regardless of who you believe, it’s completely impractical to get the vitamin D you need fr…

The only relevant math I need is that humans have done fine with animal fats for thousands of years. The value I need is what I can get naturally. And BTW, I have dark skin, I live in one of the Northest parts of the world humans live, haven't taken vitamin D supplements in years and my vitamin D levels have been great (upper middle of whatever acceptable range they use) when I got tested several times over the past…

> The only relevant math I need is that humans have done fine with animal fats for thousands of years.

That's true, however, humans have been spending days mostly inside, both living and working, for much, much less time than that, which dramatically affects how much natural D they are getting from the sun.

I'd love to see some research on the overall exposure to sunlight, on average, a person has received over the last century. My guess is that in very recent decades, especially the last couple, as working remotely and not needing to leave the house even to commute, sunlight exposure has plummeted.

Also, the risks of sun exposure have been widely reported over recent decades and advances in powerful sunblock have made even those who do spend time outdoors less likely to absorb the sun's rays.

So to place it in the context of how humans have lived for thousands of years ignores the realities of modern times.

Re: Vitamin D Supplementation Improves Cognitive Function: 12-month RCT

#134

Post by arcticbull » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:05 AM UTC

Honga wrote: post #101

roel_v wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always see Americans (apologies for making assumptions if you're not) throw around blood testing like it's something trivial and casually done. Here in the Netherlands, it takes a real medical indication and some pushing of a doctor to get any testing done. Alternatively, you use a private testing company that costs 200 to 400 euros for a comprehensive screening. Question to the public in various countries - how ea…

The Dutch health care system is allergic to preventative care. It's stunningly hard to try and just get routine things checker/done. As an Australian, having lived in four different countries, I'd say the Dutch system is the odd one out here.

More preventive care -- specifically screenings -- isn't always better. Humans are piles of goo, each person is different and totally normal, healthy baseline values are frequently quite different for different people. There is no such thing as a "normal" person.

The negative effects of false positives can easily outweigh the benefits of early screenings. For example, an NHS study shows that PSA antigen testing for prostate cancer is actually net harmful. [1]

Of course this isn't a blanket statement against testing in general, I'm just cautioning you against pre-judging the Dutch system as somehow less effective on the basis of "lack of preventive care" in general based on your personal experiences. It could well be that the other systems you participated in were less effective but attempting to placate anxious humans wanting to feel like they're 'doing something.'

[1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/17/prostate-cancer-...

Re: Vitamin D Supplementation Improves Cognitive Function: 12-month RCT

#135

Post by collyw » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:05 AM UTC

monetus wrote: post #34

throwaway5752 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is fat soluble. You can develop toxicity, and the effects are not trivial: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h... It seems based on casual reading of research that more people are deficient than not and dosing to toxic levels is unlikely. But it's not a bad idea to do this under the care of a doctor.

For reference: The level of toxicity listed in your link is 60,000IU per day. Fauci said he takes 10,000IU per day. The bottle I purchased recommends 2,000IU per day. Get your blood work done people.

What is IU compared to micrograms? (Is it international units? My girlfriend mentioned this measure to me this morning when I gave her a vitamin tabled measured in micrograms, I don't know much about it).

Re: Vitamin D Supplementation Improves Cognitive Function: 12-month RCT

#136

Post by draugadrotten » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:08 AM UTC

monetus wrote: post #34

throwaway5752 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is fat soluble. You can develop toxicity, and the effects are not trivial: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h... It seems based on casual reading of research that more people are deficient than not and dosing to toxic levels is unlikely. But it's not a bad idea to do this under the care of a doctor.

For reference: The level of toxicity listed in your link is 60,000IU per day. Fauci said he takes 10,000IU per day. The bottle I purchased recommends 2,000IU per day. Get your blood work done people.

> Fauci said he takes 10,000IU per day.

Source please?

I find Fauci said 6,000IU

https://vitamindwiki.com/Dr.+Fauci+takes+6%2C000+IU+of+Vitam...

Re: Vitamin D Supplementation Improves Cognitive Function: 12-month RCT

#137

Post by MLpractitioner » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:13 AM UTC

toshk wrote: post #116

roel_v wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always see Americans (apologies for making assumptions if you're not) throw around blood testing like it's something trivial and casually done. Here in the Netherlands, it takes a real medical indication and some pushing of a doctor to get any testing done. Alternatively, you use a private testing company that costs 200 to 400 euros for a comprehensive screening. Question to the public in various countries - how ea…

You can get an extensive screening for around 120 here in Amsterdam. Probably more expensive if I go through official doctor and have to pay it with eigen risico (first few 100 euros of healthcare you pay yourself).

Can you share the location please? Very interested

Re: Vitamin D Supplementation Improves Cognitive Function: 12-month RCT

#138

Post by radu_floricica » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:16 AM UTC

jmnicolas wrote: post #114

radu_floricica wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you find 50k pills? I'd like to get some... Most I find anywhere are 5k, and I'm the only one I know that buys them. In a supremajority of cases 50k daily would mean... let's see... about 10 fistfulls of pills. It takes dedication to swallow that much every day.

50k is a one time thing, you shouldn't take this everyday! Read other comments there are articles about the toxicity of 60k per day leading to kidney failures. I would never take more than 10k daily, and even that might be too much. I really need to have my blood tested. Here in France when doctors prescribe vitamin D it's a one time thing, say for 3 months. It's in liquid form and comes in a small glass tube. It's e…

I was mostly joking. I rarely take as much - only when I have a bad flu or the beginning of one. And it's included in the yearly checkup: I'm either deficient or, since I started supplementing seriously, normal.

Re: Vitamin D Supplementation Improves Cognitive Function: 12-month RCT

#139

Post by wavegeek » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:18 AM UTC

ve55 wrote: post #5

It's worth noting that vitamin D has a lot of high-confidence but low-effect results going for it, including a lot of strong meta-analysis over many health outcomes. What I mean by this is that it usually seems to conclusively either do something beneficial, but minor, almost nothing in the case of many studies, and in the case of some others, something very beneficial (as we've seen a few of in relation to covid rec…

As with this study the dose used is often quite low, driven by paranoia about overdoses. Other studies have been very short term, had small numbers of subjects and thus would only find very large effects, or used large irregular "bolus" doses which are very bad and no longer used.

I went through one meta-analysis and found only 3 of about 35 studies that were actually useful. So take a close look at the methods section of the paper. You don't just read the abstract, do you? Do you?

Why 600 IU / day is not enough:

1. Meta-analysis that concluded this was faulty due to back statistical analysis and understated need by a large factor Nutrients 2014, 6, 4472-4475; doi:10.3390/nu6104472 "A Statistical Error in the Estimation of the Recommended Dietary Allowance for Vitamin D" by Paul J. Veugelers and John Paul Ekwaru

2. Lactating women who get only the RDA have vitamin D deficient milk. This makes no sense if the RDA is valid

3. When people go out in the sun their bodies produce up to 10,000 IU per day but not more. Why produce all that Vit D if it is not useful?

Sorry I am away from my paper trove so I do not have the cites for 2 and 3.

Re: Vitamin D Supplementation Improves Cognitive Function: 12-month RCT

#140

Post by wavegeek » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:21 AM UTC

eloff wrote: post #40

monetus wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For reference: The level of toxicity listed in your link is 60,000IU per day. Fauci said he takes 10,000IU per day. The bottle I purchased recommends 2,000IU per day. Get your blood work done people.

There's an expert that specializes in vitamin D toxicity cases and regularly posts here. She sees cases at less than the 10000IU daily dose Fauci takes. I would be hesitant to go above 4000IU daily without monitoring blood levels every six months or so. Its winter here in Canada, I'm taking 3000IU per day. I drop that to 1000IU in the summer. I'm not a doctor, not recommending you do the same. Just sharing.

Yes I read that report and was not convinced. One anecdote. Not in a peer reviewed journal etc.

If you do take Vitamin D, variant D3 is by far best, and it may be wise to take vitamin K2 as well to avoid calcium metabolism issues (calcification).