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Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

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Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#131

Post by xsmasher »

martinpw wrote: post #85
shiado wrote: post #16

I'm actually tempted to get one of the new Macbook Airs. There's something intriguing and fun about navigating the brokenness of a new ecosystem. Does anybody know how Steam handles the new macs?

Are the old x86 Macbook Airs already discontinued or are they still available via some less obvious page on Apple's site? I picked one up last month since I liked the form factor and needed x86. Seems like I may have got it just in time?

They're available refurbished.

https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/mac/macbook-air

I've bought a lot of Apple refurbs, they are like new in every respect.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#132

Post by cercatrova »

my123 wrote: post #129
cercatrova wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably they are locked down. When asked about alternate OS, Craig Federighi said that it will be virtualization rather than booting other OS on the metal, ie Linux (and possibly Windows) VMs rather than Bootcamp. That's one of the big things stopping me from switching from the Intel version. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg9F1Qjv3iU&t=3772

Secure Boot can be disabled on Arm macs. Guess that Craig Federighi says this because Apple won't take care of drivers for other OSes. See this WWDC session: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2020/10686 and this manpage: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/RwcT8stYMY/

While that may be true, due to custom ARM instructions that Apple uses, it might be difficult to port various other OS onto it. We'll see though.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#133

Post by alwillis »

egsmi wrote: post #125
oblio wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But in the long term I actually think it’s going to be a really good thing for the industry if we can get more developers using non-x86 devices and deploying code to non-x86 servers. Why? If it's about the dominance of x86, I think in about 15-20 years there will be no other architectures in widespread use except for ARM and maybe RISC-V.

It took ARM 35 years to be an overnight success and x86 has a very large install base. It's not going anywhere. Remember this thread from not too long ago? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22837753 x86 has lock in like that in spades. What I think is much more interesting is what the software industry will do with all these random coprocessors we find in chips these days. They seem much less stable than an instru…

But x86 and Intel are losing badly in the highest growth part of the market: mobile/smart phones.

Now $699 M1-based Mac mini is way faster than any Intel box in that price range and many that cost much more.

The benchmarks that are starting to come out are just nuts, favoring the M1.

Of course not all of the pieces are in place; that takes a while. But those developers that are on top of their game released universal versions of their apps that take full advantage of the M1 SoC and all of its benefits: unified memory, 8 CPU and GPU cores, Neural Engine, etc.

It's day 1 of Big Sur being available and customers haven't gotten their M1 Macs yet, though they'll have them in a few days.

In a couple of months, once the dust has settled and developers have gotten their hands on shipping hardware, people's understanding of what performance is possible on consumer-level hardware will be changed for good.

There are Hollywood studios already planning to replace their high-end, pro Macs with M1 Mac minis because they'll be faster than what they have: https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/11/12/hollywood-thinks-...

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#134

Post by Symbiote »

user5994461 wrote: post #109
runjake wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$2,000 is a stretch. You can get the high-end M1 Mini for about $1,200. A high-end M1 MBP for under $1,800.

The Macbook Pro that is $1200 in the US is £1300 in the UK and 1449€ in France. Apple products are way more expensive outside of the US. Plus another 100 or 200 in adapters. It's beyond me why they would make a laptop with zero USB and zero HDMI ports. Total is $2000 when converted back in USD.

A business doesn't pay the VAT, so the $700 basic M1 Mini is £583, which is $772.

The 10% might still be to account for the instability of the GBP.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#135

Post by protoman3000 »

my123 wrote: post #129
cercatrova wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably they are locked down. When asked about alternate OS, Craig Federighi said that it will be virtualization rather than booting other OS on the metal, ie Linux (and possibly Windows) VMs rather than Bootcamp. That's one of the big things stopping me from switching from the Intel version. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg9F1Qjv3iU&t=3772

Secure Boot can be disabled on Arm macs. Guess that Craig Federighi says this because Apple won't take care of drivers for other OSes. See this WWDC session: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2020/10686 and this manpage: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/RwcT8stYMY/

Really curious to know how you found out about bputil. It doesn’t seem to appear in the WWDC session you linked.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#137

Post by tambourine_man »

alwillis wrote: post #128
ForHackernews wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, you can't install a non MacOS on these things? Are they basically an iPad in a notebook form factor?

You can't install an operating system that's not signed by Apple. Also, the system partition is read-only (just like Catalina was). However, as they showed at WWDC [1], you can run Linux and other operating system using Apple's hypervisor. And it will run faster on an M1 Mac than it does natively on comparable Intel hardware. [1]: https://developer.apple.com/wwdc20/10686

You can sign your own kernel:

https://twitter.com/never_released/status/132631574108015001...

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#138

Post by my123 »

protoman3000 wrote: post #135
my123 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Secure Boot can be disabled on Arm macs. Guess that Craig Federighi says this because Apple won't take care of drivers for other OSes. See this WWDC session: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2020/10686 and this manpage: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/RwcT8stYMY/

Really curious to know how you found out about bputil. It doesn’t seem to appear in the WWDC session you linked.

It's more knobs over csrutil. Chose the bputil manpage as it contains more info on the underlying hardware and security model, and allows you to selectively disable only some of the security bits.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#139

Post by [deleted] »

alwillis wrote: post #128
ForHackernews wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, you can't install a non MacOS on these things? Are they basically an iPad in a notebook form factor?

You can't install an operating system that's not signed by Apple. Also, the system partition is read-only (just like Catalina was). However, as they showed at WWDC [1], you can run Linux and other operating system using Apple's hypervisor. And it will run faster on an M1 Mac than it does natively on comparable Intel hardware. [1]: https://developer.apple.com/wwdc20/10686

[deleted]

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#140

Post by 1over137 »

terhechte wrote: post #26
ogre_codes wrote: post #13

This link is a little confusing because the top comment and much of the conversation is talking about the DTK which was based on the much older A12X CPU and not the M1. As far as I can tell, the M1 does have virtualization support, Docker just isn't ported yet. Update: Also, from Apple docs it seems like you won't be able to run emulation and virtualization in the same process. So you can run x86 Mac apps, but it's l…

Also, it seems Apple demoed Docker on Apple Silicon at WWDC: https://twitter.com/0xtim/status/1326980313160032256?s=21

Yes, but it was ARM up and down, no x86 at all.
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