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I sold Baremetrics

baremetrics.com

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Re: I sold Baremetrics

#131

Post by layoutIfNeeded »

elric wrote: post #65
pc86 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It averages out to $420k/yr. There's this sentiment on HN that "all you have to do" is get a job at a big tech company and you'll make a million dollars a year. It's idiotic, and not true. Yes, there are people who make $500k+ writing code in a cubicle for 40 hours a week. They are the vast, vast, vast minority compared to the people a) making $100-200k doing the same thing; b) making that $500k+ doing everything but…

As a Belgian, I can't help but look at these numbers in disbelief. 100-200k/annum for churning out code 40 hours a week? Where do I sign up for this? I'm the best paid employee I know, work insane hours, and I'm not even in that bracket. Addendum: it's very rare to make more than twice the average wage in Belgium as an employee. It's a different matter if you're self employed.

>Where do I sign up for this?

In California

>it's very rare to make more than twice the average wage in Belgium as an employee

Yep, software engineer compensation is crap in the EU, while the cost of living is almost as high as in Silicon Valley. Solution? Apply for H1B at a FAANG. Fuck the EU.

Re: I sold Baremetrics

#132

Post by [deleted] »

remote_phone wrote: post #118
gadders wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The founder usually carries the majority of the risk as well.

It sounds like he put in no money of his own. He would not have made $3.7M without the hard work of his employees. And yet when it came down to it, he took almost all the money for himself.

[deleted]

Re: I sold Baremetrics

#134

Post by remote_phone »

pc86 wrote: post #12

I know there's a trope about the naive founder getting screwed by shifty-eyed VC sharks, but it really sounds like Josh screwed his investors and employees here. > I wanted them to at least get their money back, but ultimately, for the $4m purchase price to work, we’d need to ask them to walk on their [$800,000] investment. He clearly didn't want it very badly, then. Nearly $3 million wasn't enough? That's about $420…

The takeaway for me is that if you come across a company that is founded by Josh Pigford, do NOT join it. It’s clear that even if the startup gains traction, he will leave before the value gets maximized and also take the lion’s share of any payout and leave you with practically nothing. That’s not what most people expect when they join a start up, they expect to share in the spoils for their hard work.

Re: I sold Baremetrics

#135

Post by adamzapasnik »

skrebbel wrote: post #97

At the time I write this comment, half my screen is full of people calling Josh not so nice things. Folks, this is a founder who's openly sharing the kinds of things we usually keep hidden. I doubt there's been a startup exit in the last decade where a healthy skeptical HN'er couldn't find some wrongs being done, if the details had been available. It's extremely hard to get everything right, from every perspective. T…

Half screen? I see a comment or two. I think it's normal/human thing to have discussions in comments like this one. Especially, when it's an exit related topic that gets shared on startup/VC related forum-site like this one?

Prefer just "good job" comments, or what?

Re: I sold Baremetrics

#136

Post by danr4 »

pc86 wrote: post #21
dimva wrote: post #10

$3.7 million sounds like a lot of money, but he could have earned more than that over 7 years if he just took a mid-level job at a FAMANG company. EDIT: saw that the founder lives in Birmingham, Alabama. So yes, $3.7 million IS a lot of money.

It averages out to $420k/yr. There's this sentiment on HN that "all you have to do" is get a job at a big tech company and you'll make a million dollars a year. It's idiotic, and not true. Yes, there are people who make $500k+ writing code in a cubicle for 40 hours a week. They are the vast, vast, vast minority compared to the people a) making $100-200k doing the same thing; b) making that $500k+ doing everything but…

I don't work in FAANG, but I know someone who works at a 1 tier lower big company. He is a mid level engineer. After 1 year at the company - Salary + Monthly vesting comes in at somewhere between 400-450K depending on how the stock performs, and he certainly has room to grow.

I was told FAANG-ers make even more than him, so yeah I tend to believe these numbers.

Re: I sold Baremetrics

#137

Post by Jochim »

imgabe wrote: post #109
matthewmacleod wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all make moral judgements like this all the time, and it’s totally normal to do so. Morality isn’t defined by what is legally permissible; it’s possible to be simultaneously entirely compliant with your legal obligations, and an absolute raging arsehole who has acted in an immoral manner.

It's not that it's legally permissible, it's that it's within bounds of what all parties agreed to. If I agree to sell you my car for $5,000 then you show up with the money and give it to me and take the car, I don't get to change my mind later and get mad that you didn't give me more and call you immoral.

For startup employees it's more like they agree to help fix a car you intend to sell in return for payment and a take in the profits of the sale.

A lot of startup exits seem to take the form of you then selling the car to someone for a break even amount, who just happens to also pay you individually an extra $5,000 on the side.

Is it a good deal for you? Yes. Is it a scummy move? Yes.

Re: I sold Baremetrics

#138

Post by scarmig »

pc86 wrote: post #21
dimva wrote: post #10

$3.7 million sounds like a lot of money, but he could have earned more than that over 7 years if he just took a mid-level job at a FAMANG company. EDIT: saw that the founder lives in Birmingham, Alabama. So yes, $3.7 million IS a lot of money.

It averages out to $420k/yr. There's this sentiment on HN that "all you have to do" is get a job at a big tech company and you'll make a million dollars a year. It's idiotic, and not true. Yes, there are people who make $500k+ writing code in a cubicle for 40 hours a week. They are the vast, vast, vast minority compared to the people a) making $100-200k doing the same thing; b) making that $500k+ doing everything but…

In my experience, most engineers, even those fresh out of college, land at above 300k within a few years at Google/FB. You do not need to be a rockstar, and you don't need to work more than 40 hours/week for that (though that can depend on team, I've never encountered one that regularly asks for more than that).

If you're talking finances, Google/Facebook will pay you more, with less risk, and better work life balance than pretty much all startups. There are entirely justifiable reasons to prefer a startup, but you should take a second look at your calculations if you think finances come out favorable on the startup side.

Re: I sold Baremetrics

#139

Post by koolherc »

falcolas wrote: post #82
twox2 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, which is why it's good that this stuff is being shared. It's a datapoint to consider for those of us as we make career choices. But let's face it, if we are not founders, then we are just "the help".

And without “the help”, most founders (OP included) won’t make it to the sale. You can’t scale without “the help”. You can’t grow your market without “the help”. To badly paraphrase someone: “The idea isn’t what’s valuable, the implementation is.” That implementation is probably >90% thanks to “the help”.

It's all good until founders understand that "we are just the help". They are the ones with the most risk, and they cannot simply walk away to a new job if they don't like how things are going. But a lot of founders put too much weight on early employees, require working as much as the founder, or require to take responsibility in things that far outreach what they were accepting to when signing a contract.

Re: I sold Baremetrics

#140

Post by jvvlimme »

elric wrote: post #65
pc86 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It averages out to $420k/yr. There's this sentiment on HN that "all you have to do" is get a job at a big tech company and you'll make a million dollars a year. It's idiotic, and not true. Yes, there are people who make $500k+ writing code in a cubicle for 40 hours a week. They are the vast, vast, vast minority compared to the people a) making $100-200k doing the same thing; b) making that $500k+ doing everything but…

As a Belgian, I can't help but look at these numbers in disbelief. 100-200k/annum for churning out code 40 hours a week? Where do I sign up for this? I'm the best paid employee I know, work insane hours, and I'm not even in that bracket. Addendum: it's very rare to make more than twice the average wage in Belgium as an employee. It's a different matter if you're self employed.

Become a contractor, you'll be in the 100 to 200k/year. (ok yes, that's before taxes)
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