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A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

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Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#131

Post by asdff »

GoOnThenDoTell wrote: post #116
asdff wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's the caveat. The black market still outweighs the legal market because it is difficult to purchase because of the difficulty in opening a legitimate dispensary, and it isn't reasonably priced with a 30% upcharge for taxes. right off the bat the illegal dispensary is 30% cheaper, and that makes a bigger difference in the MJ market where the base cost of the product is much higher than for a $16 bottle of liq…

It takes time for each successive group of new users to come to market where they weren’t exposed to the black market in the first place, who are averse to unknown quality of the black market

Unless you take the time to look up the license on the state website, there isn't much of a tell that the brick and mortar dispensary, or delivery service dispensary, is operating illegally. Still the same strange security process getting into the building as in a legitimate dispensary, still the same process of getting delivery (sometimes with nice web design to boot) so it certainly passes the smell test. Happen into one of these, and the prices alone will keep you going there rather than a legal dispensary down the road. Not to mention the packaging requirements of legal dispensaries—ask for an oz and you get handed 8 bags in some very annoying 'child proof' ziplocks (I opt to just cut them open with scissors) since they seemingly can't sell larger units than 1/8 oz or 100mg of edibles per package.

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#132

Post by kboom »

saiya-jin wrote: post #67
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't enough. Legalisation needs to happen, even for things I wouldn't touch. It isn't just about breaking a cycle, though not shaming addiction is helpful. It isn't just addicts that do drugs: I've met folks that do cocaine twice a year, for example. Few folks are addicted to LSD, and most folks only take MDMA occasionally. There is more than one way to take heroin, and folks do use occasionally. All drugs I woul…

Last sentence is especially valid - decriminalization does absolutely 0 with organized crime earning tens of billions every year from all addictives. The same folks that deal in kidnappings, ransom, contract killing, weapons smuggling and many more. As a bonus health of patients(addicts) is not deteriorating so rapidly due to crap they take along with actual drugs, so bonuses go back to whole society in form of lower…

Well I dont get why we dont get the cartels to become legal entreprises. Even gradually. We should even make deals with them today. Say: reduce death rate by 10% and we give you this and that.

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#133

Post by DougN7 »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #44
sevencolors wrote: post #37

I'm glad we're starting to move the conversation and American laws towards decriminalizing drugs. With Oregon leading the way last week. Focusing on helping addiction not ignoring it and shaming people will go a long way to breaking the cycle

It isn't enough. Legalisation needs to happen, even for things I wouldn't touch. It isn't just about breaking a cycle, though not shaming addiction is helpful. It isn't just addicts that do drugs: I've met folks that do cocaine twice a year, for example. Few folks are addicted to LSD, and most folks only take MDMA occasionally. There is more than one way to take heroin, and folks do use occasionally. All drugs I woul…

Wouldn’t there be more human trafficking as the underworld would need to make up for lost revenue from drugs?

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#134

Post by int_19h »

asdff wrote: post #96
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a point, sure: Tobacco and alcohol are still sold illegally. But most folks buy it from the stores, and if they aren't, adjustments need to be made. Taxation isn't generally the issue (as alcohol & tobacco are taxed) as long as it is easy to purchase and reasonably priced. The other issue is that there are conflicts between state and federal law. Not being able to bank easily is a major hurdle, and these sorts of…

And that's the caveat. The black market still outweighs the legal market because it is difficult to purchase because of the difficulty in opening a legitimate dispensary, and it isn't reasonably priced with a 30% upcharge for taxes. right off the bat the illegal dispensary is 30% cheaper, and that makes a bigger difference in the MJ market where the base cost of the product is much higher than for a $16 bottle of liq…

When WA legalized weed, prices went down. I don't think you can make broad claims based on one particular implementation that may well be flawed in details.

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#135

Post by int_19h »

mLuby wrote: post #74
aaomidi wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because prisons aren't going to away. They should. I don't think this is something I'm willing to change my mind on. Prisons are literally one of the worst things we've made. They serve no purpose other than to dehumanize, rape, assault, and other fucked shit to "undesirables." It allows us to put problems to be solved to a later date, instead of addressing them head on and making sure it doesn't happen. Prison sho…

> They serve no purpose other than to Come on, you know that's not true. Prisons exist primarily to control threats from society. And secondarily to punish people for getting caught breaking rules, partially for vengeance and partially for deterrence. Societies have tried other methods of controlling threats beyond imprisonment, including (but definitely not limited to) ankle bracelets, public shaming, shunning, exil…

It's very much the other way around. Prisons exist primarily to punish, and secondarily for isolation. But they were originally - as a concept - intended to be about rehabilitation. The end result is something that doesn't rehabilitate, is a very expensive way to punish someone in a way that makes it hard to control the severity of the punishment, and does a lot more than what's needed for simple isolation.

On top of all that, it gets severely overused, not the least because of this broad assumption that it's "better than many of the alternatives", even when that's not actually true - in many cases, prison sentences that replaced one-off corporal punishments for minor crimes can be a lot more disruptive for the life of the person undergoing them.

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#136

Post by 99_00 »

bigbubba wrote: post #127
99_00 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm suggesting a government, medical system, and community focused on helping people before they get to that point in their lives. I'm focusing on the part I think we can all agree on and therefore is solvable.

When that inevitably fails, where do you put the unrepentant rapist, if not in a prison? This is a simple question, if you find yourself unable to answer it, it's because your proposal is moronic.

I'm not answering the question because it is irrelevant to my proposal. I'm not sure why you're having a hard time getting that.
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