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Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

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Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#131

Post by viraptor »

foepys wrote: post #21

I honestly think that social networks where you connect the whole world were a bad idea. Basing it on ads and thus engagement made it toxic. Political left and right both formed extreme wings that attack moderate opinions for not being extreme enough. The right is often threatening violence while the left is trying to get you fired from your job. We need to get rid of engagement algorithms and actively try to counter…

> The right is often threatening violence while the left is trying to get you fired from your job.

Wait till you see the "guillotine for the landlords" crowd :-(

I've noticed what you mentioned too - people claiming that if you don't fight for their idea, you're against the whole left/right/whatever. I wonder if that's an inevitable result of presenting views as left/right and having two parties in the first place. Most European countries have many flavours of left/right and parties having to form various coalitions instead.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#132

Post by brigandish »

atoav wrote: post #95
ColanR wrote: post #2

And this is why it's so important to maintain basic civility to everyone, regardless of political views.

"Do we have to show tolerance to the intolerant?" is not the newest question in the book, and historians will probably tell you that in fact free societies stay free if they draw a clear line what is unaccepted behaviour. Liberty is always a balance act, because if you give bad actors freedom in the name of tolerance they will use it to reduce the freedom of weaker actors within society. If you live in a "survival of…

> "Do we have to show tolerance to the intolerant?" is not the newest question in the book

Lately it seems to be the most misrepresented part of Popper's "paradox of intolerance", where he defines intolerance as those who resort to violence instead of speech, and the would be censors of this age who bring up the paradox - without seeming to have read it - tell us that the intolerant are those we disagree with. "we" being those the would be censors disagree with.

> free societies stay free if they draw a clear line what is unaccepted behaviour

> if you give bad actors freedom in the name of tolerance they will use it to reduce the freedom of weaker actors within society

I agree. There is a clear line, which is crossed the moment someone resorts to violence instead of speech, and it has been drawn clearly in law. The bad actors would be those looking to reduce freedoms such as speech, based on nothing more than disagreement, which as it happens is something fascists (among others) have done when they've had the chance.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#133

Post by ghthor »

cycomanic wrote: post #114
TMWNN wrote: post #8

The final Democracy Institute poll ( https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1354506/us-election-202... ) that came out Saturday predicts a Trump victory contrary to most other polls, because it found that 79% of Trump voters do not tell others that they support him, while only 21% of Biden voters are shy. USC's poll predicts a Biden victory, but when experimental questions are asked to figure out how those polled reall…

Meanwhile a convoy of armed Trump supporters literally tried to run the Biden campaign bus off the road [1]. That's the reality Trump supporters are using fascist tactics (and I'm not exaggerating here, these acts are rightbout of a fascist playbook) while complaining that liberals say mean things to them. [1] https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.dailymail.co.uk/new... BTW there are reports that police refused to…

I wouldn't help the Biden campaign either if I was police, after they stocked the flames of a movement that literally chanted about wrapping cops up and setting them on fire.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#134

Post by conanbatt »

runawaybottle wrote: post #13

Young Americans are also more likely than older Americans to support punishing people at work for personal donations to Trump. Forty‐ four percent (44%) of Americans under 30 support firing executives if they donate to Trump. This share declines to 22% among those over 55 years old—a 20‐ point difference. An age gap also exists for Biden donors, but is less pronounced. Twenty‐ seven percent (27%) of Americans under 3…

Gen Z prob have Gen X parents. washes hands

I think the real issue with political polarization is that the stakes at the individual level are very very low when you are in an offensive position. People that think that people should get fired over donations have no risk of getting fired for that opinion themselves.

Generally there is a problem of escalation and individual responsibility, and its all being concentrated in the political sphere because of it.

There is another major trend which is that governments are directing themselves on polling more than ever: they are constantly making stances and policies on the latest hot-tweet, which makes the political sphere way too relevant to people's daily lives.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#135

Post by afpx »

ethanbond wrote: post #76
mdifrgechd wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think that's quite fair, basic civility would mean not immediately trying to frame something you disagree with as denying basic rights, and trying to have a more practical discussion about the issues.

But... there are actually people who believe that those with a certain skin color or of a certain sexual orientation or religion actually should not have basic rights. Not everyone who gets targeted as such holds those beliefs, sure, but they absolutely do exist in America. Until fairly recently, those people’s beliefs actually drove real policies in America that had real teeth and caused real suffering for real peop…

These topics have been debated for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Hence, the US constitution was created. It’s been working pretty well so far. And, I don’t think it’ll be changing anytime soon.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#136

Post by offshore4432 »

buro9 wrote: post #104
factorialboy wrote: post #36

My company got spammed by Expensify CEOs political views. Some non Americans complained about receiving the irrelevant email. Some Americans were targeting even that. Apparently foreigners have no right to NOT RECEIVE political endorsements that mirrors their political views. Your politics is too toxic. Sorry but it has to be said.

And just after I read this on HN I see this shared by a fellow brit asking WTF https://www.thedailybeast.com/biden-camp-cancels-austin-texa... and indeed... it's hard to comprehend of this level of voter and campaign intimidation like this anywhere. When I've read things like this in the past it's been in failed states.

Look at the full video. The Trump vehicles were in their own lanes. The other vehicles made aggressive moves to merge into the Trump supporters' lanes.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#137

Post by ghthor »

offshore4432 wrote: post #109
morelisp wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one side has lost [sight] of the whole point of "civics" Today the president voiced approval for his supporters literally running his opponents' supporters off the road.

If you actually look at the video closely, the Trump supporters' vehicles kept their own lanes. The other vehicles drove into their lanes.

Shhhhh, dont pop the brainwashed bubble, they might get violent and attack.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#138

Post by ben509 »

viraptor wrote: post #10
ColanR wrote: post #2

And this is why it's so important to maintain basic civility to everyone, regardless of political views.

It's a nice ideal, but once the views become too extreme, it's not practical. Not many people will maintain basic civility towards a person telling them they don't deserve basic rights for example.

> Not many people will maintain basic civility towards a person telling them they don't deserve basic rights for example.

And the political left has been gaming that for years now by declaring that every entitlement and vote-buying scheme they've come up with represents a basic human right.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#139

Post by [deleted] »

wilde wrote: post #130
mc32 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw that video. It's not actually clear cut to me who was at fault. The truck was in the right lane, the bus and SUV right behind in the left lane. Bus merged right (into truck's lane immediately in front) SUV could not occupy the space already occupied by the truck as SUV tried following bus. Truck did not yield, SUV tried to wedge in and straddled both lanes. There was subsequent contact but I'm not sure who init…

The truck is at fault by being there at all. This is not acceptable behavior. They created the situation with the intent to provoke. It’s classic bullying.

[deleted]

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#140

Post by eutropia »

grenoire wrote: post #4

America seems to be an interesting country where people silence others' political beliefs, as opposed to the usual military violence, tightly-established hierarchies, and economic oppression...

Propaganda is to Democracy as the cudgel and boot is to Autocracy
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