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KDE Plasma 5.20

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Re: KDE Plasma 5.20

#131

Post by dheera »

eitland wrote: post #127
dheera wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well maybe it's what everyone else wants. It's not what I want either, and it's not what most other Linux users I know want either. It's copying the behavior of MacOS, plain and simple, and I disagree with them doing that. I don't use MacOS because I don't like MacOS, and the last thing I want is MacOS-like Linux.

> I don't use MacOS because I don't like MacOS, and the last thing I want is MacOS-like Linux. Same here, but grouping applications when the taskbar is full isn't too unreasonable, is it? It is not even necessarily copied from Mac, it might have been Windows who introduced or at least made it mainstream I think (It wouldn't surprise me at all if it existed on some Linux Desktop environment as an option before that.)

The taskbar is never that full for me. I usually use more virtual workspaces when there is too much stuff in one workspace.

Re: KDE Plasma 5.20

#132

Post by TillE »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #20

KDE 5 Plasma is amazing. Subjectively, I feel the following about it: after over 2 decades of being extremely buggy and extremely ugly, KDE has became a culmination of desktop PC GUI design, the best I've experienced so far (tiling WMs can be better in certain tasks and settings but not universally). Manjaro with recent KDE provides me what I call "a lot like Mac but way better" experience (surely, there are aspects…

It's still absolutely wild to me that KDE4 got released in the state it was in. I loved KDE3, maybe it had some issues but it mostly Just Worked as a Windows XP-like desktop environment. KDE4 was unusably broken for years and years, it's basically why I stopped using a Linux desktop.

If KDE5 is finally good, I'll give it a shot.

Re: KDE Plasma 5.20

#133

Post by eitland »

laszlokorte wrote: post #56

Sorry for the snarky comment but that you can clearly see the promoted KRunner search box flickering and reflowing in the promotional video is exemplary for the quality differences between mac, windows and linux desktop environments.

> Sorry for the snarky comment but that you can clearly see the promoted KRunner search box flickering and reflowing in the promotional video is exemplary for the quality differences between mac, windows and linux desktop environments.

You don't need to be sorry, just give me slme freedom when I answer, I'm not tryingnto be snarky but to explain something extremely important :-)

I used Mac for three years. In my opinion it had some extremely weird behavior by default (CMD-tab couldn't switch between instances and to make matters worse there is no configuration option or tool you can use to get sane behaviour.) And bugs:

- opening a dialog in one browser window would lock all windows from that browser. Good luck looking up the documentation for where the files you are supposed to upload are without either closing the upload dialog or opening a different browser.

- keyboard shortcuts vary wildly between apps: In one app CMD - Shift - leftarrow selects tobthe start of the line. In Safari however it meant go back. Guess how I still know after 8 years. Yes, filling out forms and losing everything because I wanted to select a lkne of text.

Windows also often used to drive me mad. It is better now but the performance tax when compiling is still 30%! And even their own dotnet applications use 3 seconds to start on their OS vs 127 ms or something in a virtual Linux machine on top if that Windows box.

Crazy bad performance and latency issues and insane keyboard shortcuts are UX problems just as well as flickering and reflowing.

KDE isn't worse. Just different. For some of us it has already been the least annoying option for years already.

Re: KDE Plasma 5.20

#134

Post by jula432vdf »

So I see lots of comments about certain defaults or options some people would like to see in the blank, not customized KDE.

But here's the thing, many defaults are just choices made by some dev, designer.

In KDE many options have nothing to do with the MacOS or Gnome defaults, even more, the defaults have been choosed specifically to avoid a known behavior or default in MacOS or Gnome

Luckily for everyone, KDE has so many customization options that you can make it work like almost any GUI you know, the popular one is of course MacOS aesthetics, but some guys like to configure it to behave just like Windows 10.

You could also create your own kind of GUI, nothing like any other GUI available.

The lesson is, in KDE most defaults can be changed, and that's mostly why it still exists as a software project probably.

Re: KDE Plasma 5.20

#135

Post by eitland »

dheera wrote: post #131
eitland wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't use MacOS because I don't like MacOS, and the last thing I want is MacOS-like Linux. Same here, but grouping applications when the taskbar is full isn't too unreasonable, is it? It is not even necessarily copied from Mac, it might have been Windows who introduced or at least made it mainstream I think (It wouldn't surprise me at all if it existed on some Linux Desktop environment as an option before that.)

The taskbar is never that full for me. I usually use more virtual workspaces when there is too much stuff in one workspace.

Good for you. Then you can set the taskbar to not group applications :-)

Re: KDE Plasma 5.20

#136

Post by nilsocket »

Problem with KDE is they have too many user-level applications.

KDE team could have put focus and resources on core desktop environment.

It had many problems, but still they keep diversifying further.

I really like KDE, it's been my goto desktop from nearly 4 years.

Re: KDE Plasma 5.20

#137

Post by qwerty456127 »

TillE wrote: post #132
qwerty456127 wrote: post #20

KDE 5 Plasma is amazing. Subjectively, I feel the following about it: after over 2 decades of being extremely buggy and extremely ugly, KDE has became a culmination of desktop PC GUI design, the best I've experienced so far (tiling WMs can be better in certain tasks and settings but not universally). Manjaro with recent KDE provides me what I call "a lot like Mac but way better" experience (surely, there are aspects…

It's still absolutely wild to me that KDE4 got released in the state it was in. I loved KDE3, maybe it had some issues but it mostly Just Worked as a Windows XP-like desktop environment. KDE4 was unusably broken for years and years, it's basically why I stopped using a Linux desktop. If KDE5 is finally good, I'll give it a shot.

> I loved KDE3, maybe it had some issues but it mostly Just Worked as a Windows XP-like desktop environment.

But Windows XP had way more polished look&feel (as did any other Windows version). KDE 3 looked ugly. KDE 4 looked OK but kind of wasteful in terms of screen area.

> KDE4 was unusably broken for years and years, it's basically why I stopped using a Linux desktop.

I just went to XFCE which has hardly changed at all since then. XFCE is always a perfect fallback DE for weird times. I also went XFCE (for about a year or 2 every time) when Unity was first introduced and when it got retired. I just disabled the standard XFCE panels and added a 3-rd party dock instead.

Re: KDE Plasma 5.20

#138

Post by qwerty456127 »

dheera wrote: post #123
thomond wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is exactly the opposite of what I want. Well maybe it's what everyone else wants. Either way it's just the default they're changing, one good thing about grouping in Plasma is it lets you exclude certain applications so you can exclude your PDF viewer. Alot of other environments give an all or nothing approach.

> Well maybe it's what everyone else wants. It's not what I want either, and it's not what most other Linux users I know want either. It's copying the behavior of MacOS, plain and simple, and I disagree with them doing that. I don't use MacOS because I don't like MacOS, and the last thing I want is MacOS-like Linux.

> It's copying the behavior of MacOS, plain and simple

And of Windows 7-8-10 (and of Unity). And the opposite is just copying the behavior of Windows 95-2000 (XP would already group taskbar buttons by default although it still couldn't "pin" them and required separate launcher buttons).

And, by the way, MacOS doesn't group all the windows by default, some get a separate icon when launched (at least they did some years ago, I don't know about the recent versions).

> I don't use MacOS because I don't like MacOS, and the last thing I want is MacOS-like Linux.

Fortunately, there are many different WMs/DEs on Linux and you don't have to use KDE (or its default set-up) either. You can either tweak it, or choose a different WM/DE or write your own (I would totally do so if I had more spare time).

Re: KDE Plasma 5.20

#139

Post by Angeo34 »

People in this thread got accustomed to the walled garden that is Macos so much that they don't realize KDEs philosophy. Literally every singular think in KDE is configurable even stuff you wouldn't have even thought about is.configurable.

The de to just use with default values is Gnome. If you want to have it however you want it you use Plasma.

Re: KDE Plasma 5.20

#140

Post by piedar »

nitrogen wrote: post #113
ubercow13 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would apt uninstall things automatically? I’ve never noticed pacman doing that but maybe I’m lucky

Sometimes a newer version of package A will declare that it conflicts with package B. Maybe package C depended on both before the conflict was added. Then the package manager might find that the only way to resolve all conflicts is to remove C, which then auto-removes everything C depended on. Maybe C happens to be the "kububtu-desktop" package.

That seems like a poor design in apt. Does any other package manager allow such a thing? I know Arch's pacman has no autoremove - you have to gather a list of unneeded packages then remove them as a separate step. And Gentoo's emerge builds a dependency tree rooted in the @world package set, so if kde-plasma/plasma-meta is there it will never be removed by an automatic depclean.
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