Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

X-COM

filfre.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 238 posts

Re: X-COM

#131

Post by nottorp »

eru wrote: post #69
nottorp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frozen Synapse is a simplified clone of Laser Squad Nemesis, which was done by... you guessed, the Gollops. Sadly that game is no longer available. It was multiplayer only (it had some single player but it was an afterthought) and they've taken it down long ago.

I played Frozen Synapse a bit. I seem to remember there were some local multiplayer options? Play by email would work ok for this kind of game. (But I don't think that was ever supported. Laser Squad Nemesis might have supported play-by-email, I'm not sure?)

LSN was play by email only. It probably made sense in 2002. They did add a web interface to get your new turns a few years later.

Plus you could spend a day setting up your turn in a rated game against a good opponent, so who cared how the turns arrived.

Frozen Synapse decided to go with a time limit for turns... same mistake as xcom 2.

Re: X-COM

#132

Post by nottorp »

baud147258 wrote: post #118
nottorp wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xcom 2 is a disaster due to the arbitrary time (or turn, for the nitpickers) limits in all missions. If you don't rush via the shortest path or if you do the unthinkable and explore the map a bit you'll run out of time and die. And if you install a mod that removes the turn limits it becomes way too easy because it's balanced for rushing blindly ahead and it's like taking candy from a baby if you have time to scout a…

What do you need to explore the map for? (there might be mission in the WotC expansion where you might need to, but I think those don't have timers, I think) I only play through XCOM 2 once (my laptop's too potato to stomach another time at minimum graphics and slowdowns), but I felt that the timers weren't so bad, it pushed to move fast (agressive scouting) and not waste any time (no more overwatch crawl). Though th…

Well, they had a free weekend once and in the very first mission I thought "let's see what's around this corner". There were no aliens, the landscape was pretty, but it meant I lost 2 turns and the mission. I promptly uninstalled it and bought it a couple years later when it was 90% off. Never bought any expansion.

Maybe you like crap like that but I find it insulting. See my other answer for how to push players to move fast without introducing arbitrary limits.

Re: X-COM

#133

Post by ethbr0 »

neilprosser wrote: post #102

Definitely one of my favourite games growing up (along with Colonization). I'm reminded of one of my best gaming facepalms which occurred playing X-COM. We'd been playing the game for ages and had found it very difficult to kill all the aliens during the ground missions. We'd go round the whole map attempting to find the last remaining aliens before having to give up. It was only when one of us accidentally clicked i…

> accidentally clicked

You just described the manual for X-COM. (Said as a fan)

Re: X-COM

#134

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

I love the original X-com and take it for a spin every few years.

By far the greatest thing original X-com had was the sense of mystery and dread of the unknown on your first playthrough. You didn't know what lies ahead, you didn't know what technologies to research, and how to do what. New aliens were catching you by surprise all the time, and Chrysalids, god, they were so so scary. When I got to flying armor my guys never walked again, just because of these guys.

I actually even liked the immediate sequel, because it added difficulty and stuff. If only it wasn't this last alien syndrome...

The reboot was a letdown for me. Underground base-hive was gorgeous, but I lacked the freedom of roaming the globe and sending patrol aircraft in different directions, locating bases that I knew were somewhere out there... It felt like I'm railroaded on a fixed path, instead of slowly finding out the clues on my own.

The second X-Com 2 was a step better for me, and I liked the feeling of being a scrappy resistance fighter, and all resource and time constraints made a lot more sense in that context. I actually managed to beat X-Com 2 in Ironman mode on Commander difficulty without losing any soldier, and THAT was a major feat, I tell you. Ironman adds a lot to the game, you can't savescum from a risky missed shot, and actually start to be really afraid for your guys.

Re: X-COM

#135

Post by tomalpha »

m12k wrote: post #123
TheAlchemist wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will just say - you are not alone with that 'discovery'. And I also loved Colonization - I played like once a year or two until recently - it's really fantastic.

I'm not sure what it is about Colonization, but the mood and atmosphere of it just hit the nail on the head for me, and kept me coming back again and again.

Completely agree. For me the upbeat music really made the atmosphere of the original Colonization, and the later remake (based on Civ 4?) with its more downbeat soundtrack was much less enjoyable.

Re: X-COM

#136

Post by ethbr0 »

eru wrote: post #125
vanderZwan wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always felt the serialising that X-COM enforced to be an artificial limitation. I was about to argue that it might have been a technical limitation too, but Dune II, the first real-time strategy game, came out two years before X-COM so technically that can't be quite right. On the other hand, it also requires a certain set of programmer skills and specialized knowledge of how to simulate such systems, and opens u…

Yes, I think it's not so much a programming limitation per se, but a game design limitation. It's a much tougher nut to crack how to present the choices available to the player in a sensible and understandable way. Notice how Frozen Synapse is otherwise a much simpler game with fewer elements than even just in the tactical mode of the original X-Com.

It's fair to say that, going further back in computer game history, something being possible didn't mean it was possible for you.

Programming expertise and information was a lot less accessible and evenly distributed.

You couldn't just "hire a graphics person", because no one knew what the hell that was. You hired a smart computer person / artist, and hoped they could learn everything. One reason the history of early games companies has so much "and then we hired this person named X, who had no training, but turned into one of the world's best Y's."

Re: X-COM

#137

Post by Newtonip »

joelbluminator wrote: post #89
zenojevski wrote: post #60

Even greater than UFO Defense, in my opinion, was its expansion - Terror From the Deep . It truly taught me that our oceans are so close, yet much farther than outer space can ever be. Looking at that lone blue globe in space always makes me feel so insignificant, so meaningless. Space is vast, but empty, and sterile. Down the abyss, not even light can shine to bless and purify. The greatest contributor to that is ce…

OMG Terror From the Deep, it was so freaking great.

It was way too hard.

Re: X-COM

#138

Post by eru »

nottorp wrote: post #131
eru wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I played Frozen Synapse a bit. I seem to remember there were some local multiplayer options? Play by email would work ok for this kind of game. (But I don't think that was ever supported. Laser Squad Nemesis might have supported play-by-email, I'm not sure?)

LSN was play by email only . It probably made sense in 2002. They did add a web interface to get your new turns a few years later. Plus you could spend a day setting up your turn in a rated game against a good opponent, so who cared how the turns arrived. Frozen Synapse decided to go with a time limit for turns... same mistake as xcom 2.

The limited number of turns in Frozen Synapse make more sense than in XCom 2. Mostly because Frozen Synapse is actually a multiplayer game.

Also compare the 'turn limits' in Into the Breach that are very well done: you have to hold out for four turns in all missions.

Re: X-COM

#139

Post by gibsonhouse »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #134

I love the original X-com and take it for a spin every few years. By far the greatest thing original X-com had was the sense of mystery and dread of the unknown on your first playthrough. You didn't know what lies ahead, you didn't know what technologies to research, and how to do what. New aliens were catching you by surprise all the time, and Chrysalids, god, they were so so scary. When I got to flying armor my guy…

I would recommend looking into the game Xenonauts. it captures some of that flavour.

Re: X-COM

#140

Post by eru »

ethbr0 wrote: post #136
eru wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think it's not so much a programming limitation per se, but a game design limitation. It's a much tougher nut to crack how to present the choices available to the player in a sensible and understandable way. Notice how Frozen Synapse is otherwise a much simpler game with fewer elements than even just in the tactical mode of the original X-Com.

It's fair to say that, going further back in computer game history, something being possible didn't mean it was possible for you . Programming expertise and information was a lot less accessible and evenly distributed. You couldn't just "hire a graphics person", because no one knew what the hell that was. You hired a smart computer person / artist, and hoped they could learn everything. One reason the history of earl…

I think we are mostly in agreement.

What I am saying is that just implementing a very crude version would have been doable in the early 90s.

What was much harder was to come up with a way to present the information and make the planning intuitive and fun. Including the programming aspects of that.

Post reply on HN