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Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

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131–140 of 784 posts

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#131
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next Apple machine I am going to buy will be using RISC-V cores.

I suspect you'll be waiting for quite a long time, if not forever.

FWIW Apple isn't even listed on RISC-V's membership page:

https://riscv.org/membership/members/

While some like Google and Alibaba are listed as platinum founding members.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#132
post #50

I love this, I was amongst early engineers on CUDA (compilers). NVIDIA was so well run, but boxed into a smaller graphics card market - ATI and it were forced into low margins since they were made replaceable by OpenGL and DirectX standards. For the standard fans - they resulted a wealth transfer from NVIDIA to Apple etc. and reduced capital available for R&D. NVIDIA was constantly attacked by a much bigger Intel (wh…

The comment identified the positive side of the nvidia story. Note that nvidia had not had large acquisition for many years.

This acquisition can be seen as a beacon of nvidia's past struggle against the market and the competitors.

For whatever happened, nvidia innovated to their success, and had enabled possibly the biggest tech boom so far through deep learning. Might be one day everyone claimed nvidia to be the "most important company" on earth.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#133
post #130

This is awful . Out of all the big tech companies, Nvidia is probably least friendly to open source and cross-platform comparability. It seems to me that their goal is to monopolize AI hardware over the next 20 years, the same way Intel effectively monopolized cloud hardware over the last 20. Expect to see less choice in the chip market and more and more propietary software frameworks like CUDA. A sad day for CS and…

Lol with the italics awful and your “seems to me” angle

Hyperbole is how you get upvotes. No one really reacts to wishy-washy answers, it's the "OMG world is ending" provocative stuff that gets people engaged.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#134

This is awful . Out of all the big tech companies, Nvidia is probably least friendly to open source and cross-platform comparability. It seems to me that their goal is to monopolize AI hardware over the next 20 years, the same way Intel effectively monopolized cloud hardware over the last 20. Expect to see less choice in the chip market and more and more propietary software frameworks like CUDA. A sad day for CS and…

NVIDIA’s hardware works on x86, PowerPC, and ARM platforms. Many of their AI libraries/tools are in fact open source. They stand to be a force that could propel ARM’s strength in data center and desktop computing. For some reason you’re okay with the current x86 duopoly held by AMD and Intel, both who have their own destiny over CPUs and GPUs. The HN crowd is incredibly biased against certain companies. Why not look…

There are good points on both sides; as a Linux user, I feel the effects of their proprietary drivers and uncooperative approach, while I can also appreciate that they've managed to work with the Gnome and KDE project to have some support under Wayland, and the contributions they've made to the machine learning communities. Ad a whole, I do think that the former outweighs the latter, and loath the acquisition, but do think that the resources they're packing will bring ARM to new heights for the majority users.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#135

This is awful . Out of all the big tech companies, Nvidia is probably least friendly to open source and cross-platform comparability. It seems to me that their goal is to monopolize AI hardware over the next 20 years, the same way Intel effectively monopolized cloud hardware over the last 20. Expect to see less choice in the chip market and more and more propietary software frameworks like CUDA. A sad day for CS and…

NVIDIA’s hardware works on x86, PowerPC, and ARM platforms. Many of their AI libraries/tools are in fact open source. They stand to be a force that could propel ARM’s strength in data center and desktop computing. For some reason you’re okay with the current x86 duopoly held by AMD and Intel, both who have their own destiny over CPUs and GPUs. The HN crowd is incredibly biased against certain companies. Why not look…

Yes I wonder the same thing about the sentiment against nvidia. It’s be helpful if there were some wiki about things they’ve killed or instances they’ve acted against foss systems.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#136

This is awful . Out of all the big tech companies, Nvidia is probably least friendly to open source and cross-platform comparability. It seems to me that their goal is to monopolize AI hardware over the next 20 years, the same way Intel effectively monopolized cloud hardware over the last 20. Expect to see less choice in the chip market and more and more propietary software frameworks like CUDA. A sad day for CS and…

NVIDIA’s hardware works on x86, PowerPC, and ARM platforms. Many of their AI libraries/tools are in fact open source. They stand to be a force that could propel ARM’s strength in data center and desktop computing. For some reason you’re okay with the current x86 duopoly held by AMD and Intel, both who have their own destiny over CPUs and GPUs. The HN crowd is incredibly biased against certain companies. Why not look…

The OP said nothing about being ok with the x86 duopoly.

Its possible to dislike two things at once, its also possible to be wary of new developments that give much more market power to a notoriously uncooperative and closed company.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the biggest concern is NVIDIA's stance against OSS.

Look at their AI/CUDA documentation and associated githubs. Many of their tools and libraries are open source. Tell me, what other AI platform works with x86 and PowerPC and ARM? Currently NVIDIA’s GPUs do.

It's good that they open sourced that stuff, but the main problem is that CUDA itself is closed source and vendor locked to nvidia's hardware.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#138
post #87

Can anyone point me who would be competing with Nvidia in AI Market ?

There's low power inference from Intel (Movidius) and Google (Coral Edge TPU). Nvidia doesn't really have anything below the Jetson Nano. I think there are a smattering of other low power cores out there (also dedicated chips in phones). TPUs are used on the high performance end and there are also companies like Graphcore who do insane things in silicon. Also niche HPC products like Intel Knight's Landing (Xeon Phi) which is designed for heterogeneous compute.

There isn't a huge amount of competition in the consumer/midrange sector. Nvidia has almost total market domination here. Really we just need a credible cross platform solution that could open up gpgpu on AMD. I'm surprised Apple isn't pushing this more, as they heavily use ML on-device and to actually train anything you need Nvidia hardware (eg try buying a Macbook for local deep learning training using only apple approved bits, it's hard!). Maybe they'll bring out their own training silicon at some point.

Also you need to make a distinction between training and inference hardware. Nvidia absolutely dominate model training, but inference is comparably simpler to implement and there is more competition there - often you don't even need dedicated hardware beyond a cpu.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#140
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Nvidia's GPUs now include the same type of hardware that TPUs have, so there's no reason to believe that TPUs will win out over GPUs.

The key difference between a TPU and a GPU is that a TPU has a CPU. It's an entire computer, not just a piece of hardware. Is nVidia moving in that direction?

In term of cutting edge tech, They have their own GPUs, CPUs from ARM, Networking from Mellanox, so I'd say they're pretty much set to build a kick ass TPU.
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