PicoRio Linux RISC-V SBC is an open-source alternative to Raspberry Pi board • Hacker News Board

Re: PicoRio Linux RISC-V SBC is an open-source alternative to Raspberry Pi board

#131

Post by justin66 » Sat, Sep 05, 2020, 1:41 PM UTC

zucker42 wrote: post #96

ansible wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read a little further down in that thread, Eben Upton says that it is to prevent other camera vendors from just using the ISP tuning they developed for their official camera. You can still use some other camera with a CSI-compatible interface.

The question is why is a charity organization devoted to education using DRM for protectionism rather than taking an approach where knowledge is more freely shared.

It appears the question has been answered and you just didn't like the answer.

Re: PicoRio Linux RISC-V SBC is an open-source alternative to Raspberry Pi board

#132

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 05, 2020, 1:52 PM UTC

bydo wrote: post #77

monocasa wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we know the foundry? I like your idea because I could see the Chinese government doing this to help prop up SMIC too. The RPi4 isn't any smaller than 16nm, and SMIC needs 14nm customers. Shoot for the 500MHz target listed, which is achievable with Victorian era style over engineering. Next sell those more or less at cost after the government footed the bill for initial capital (probably paying back .gov.cn first).…

Image in the article says TSMC 28nm. https://www.cnx-software.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Pico...

[deleted]

Re: PicoRio Linux RISC-V SBC is an open-source alternative to Raspberry Pi board

#133

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 05, 2020, 1:55 PM UTC

hlandau wrote: post #115

avian wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Arguments that Broadcom is forcing their hand on this simply don't add up. I have worked with much more mundane integrated circuits where the manufacturer required you to sign an NDA before getting any kind of design support from them. One of the terms of the NDA was not publishing the schematic of the device using their product. I don't see why Broadcom wouldn't do something similar for their SoCs.

A few things. Broadcom is notorious for demanding NDAs for their datasheets, completely pointlessly. I've also heard of companies demanding their parts be redacted on schematics if published, even more ridiculously, though as far as I know Broadcom isn't one of them (I've seen public schematics with Broadcom parts). Still, from what I've heard of Broadcom specifically, they're pathologically secretive with their docu…

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Re: PicoRio Linux RISC-V SBC is an open-source alternative to Raspberry Pi board

#134

Post by MegaDeKay » Sat, Sep 05, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #3

Oof, GPU by Imagination Technologies. Here's hoping their close brush with death opened them to the idea of open sourcing their code.

The Beaglebone has the same problem, which is unfortunate. It would be sweet to have a completely open source stack on that thing that included accelerated graphics.

Re: PicoRio Linux RISC-V SBC is an open-source alternative to Raspberry Pi board

#135

Post by monocasa » Sat, Sep 05, 2020, 2:26 PM UTC

lnsru wrote: post #121

trishmapow2 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microcontroller vs microprocessor. Also I don't know anyone who pays RRP on Arduinos. If I need one for a project I get a Pro Mini (same specs, much smaller) for $2 shipped from China.

You don’t use Chinese clone in a commercial product. Especially when whole system costs $15k+

You don't use arduinos in commercial products either. You design your own board and drop a atmega328p on it so you don't have to deal with the support calls of the arduino working it's way loose.

Re: PicoRio Linux RISC-V SBC is an open-source alternative to Raspberry Pi board

#136

Post by opencl » Sat, Sep 05, 2020, 3:13 PM UTC

drmpeg wrote: post #43

ColanR wrote: post #2

Promising hardware, though this isn't looking like comparable hardware even to the Raspberry Pi Zero. Only has a quad-core 64-bit RISC-V (RV64GC) processor at 500+ MHz. RAM size not specified. If it was priced in the $5-15 range it would be more or less practical, but higher than that I'd be buying it solely for the architecture novelty.

I'm a little concerned that these RV64GC implementations all end up at about 500-600 MHz. There's plenty of 1.5 GHz ARM processors at 28 nm.

The achievable clock speed is mostly a function of the pipeline depth and how well the design is optimized, the ISA should have very little impact on it. There are a bunch of high-clocked high-performance ARM chips available because several huge companies have already made large R&D investments into developing them.

Re: PicoRio Linux RISC-V SBC is an open-source alternative to Raspberry Pi board

#137

Post by DominikD » Sat, Sep 05, 2020, 4:29 PM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #3

Oof, GPU by Imagination Technologies. Here's hoping their close brush with death opened them to the idea of open sourcing their code.

It's up to chip manufacturers, not IP provider, to release code - and none of them did.

Re: PicoRio Linux RISC-V SBC is an open-source alternative to Raspberry Pi board

#138

Post by frainfreeze » Sat, Sep 05, 2020, 4:51 PM UTC

byset wrote: post #32

Interesting that the group behind this is Tsinghua-Berkeley Shenzhen Institute, which is sponsored by UC Berkeley as well as a major Chinese university and the Shenzhen government. China is quite interested in RISC-V gaining traction as trade and security barriers rise and they work to build up their domestic technology sector. Going into wild-ass speculation mode, if this board really is affordable, I wonder if it's…

> Going into wild-ass speculation mode, if this board really is affordable, I wonder if it's being subsidized by the Chinese gov't to encourage RISC-V adoption.

You might find this[1] meeting with Steven Zhao interesting. Steven Zhao is the guy behind Orange Pi, raspberry pi alternative. Interesting part translated:

Steven announces that Orange Pi can buy a good quality WiFi component for $1, that his cards will have a good WiFi connection for that price.

- Uh, if the purchase of the component is $1, inevitably the exit price will be a little higher for the end customer, Mr. Zhao? - If you tell me the price, I will know your margin ... -

- No, because today all Orange Pi cards are sold at the BOM (Bills Of Material) price.

- Does that mean that the cost of engineers, premises, development hardware, design and all that ... isn't impacted in the price of a card?

- That's right.

- But how is that possible?

- We benefit from government grants.

And here's a statement that takes your breath away. Orange Pi is a private company in a state dumping system. This can be said from a Western point of view, of the international agreements and of all the conceptual set-up intended to protect the big established industrialists.

1: https://www.minimachines.net/a-la-une/orange-pi-steven-zhao-...

Re: PicoRio Linux RISC-V SBC is an open-source alternative to Raspberry Pi board

#139

Post by ecesena » Sat, Sep 05, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

CameronNemo wrote: post #95

ecesena wrote: post #88

What's the latest on a cheap, small board where you can run linux, with BLE & WiFi 2.4/5GHz? Rpi Zero W and the corresponding Banana Pi M2 Zero meet all criteria except the 5GHz. Beside these, I have a really hard time finding any cheap alternative. There's plenty of embedded devices for iot, from arduino to all others. But 100% of the iot I have in my apartment are actually powered and don't need a batter/extremely…

Is there an issue with using an external WiFi adapter?

Not an issue per se, it’s just that the cost goes up pretty quickly... imagine you want to build your own fleet of 10-20 devices.

Re: PicoRio Linux RISC-V SBC is an open-source alternative to Raspberry Pi board

#140

Post by ansible » Sat, Sep 05, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

vhodges wrote: post #63

ansible wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hilariously, on one of the slides posted to Twitter, the phase 1 chip won't have low-speed peripherals. But I'm sure they'll include at least one serial port. No one is going to get very far without even a serial console. The phase 1 SoC is all I'm interested in for now. The lowest-size LPDDR4 part I could find is 256MB, which isn't a lot, but enough for what I want to do. Having that RAM, and networking or USB, will…

'Only' 128MB but https://groupgets.com/manufacturers/good-stuff-department/pr... is capable of running a linux capable core and it's tiny (Adafruit's Feather form factor)

That's actually not a bad little board.

I've been laser focused on RV64, but RV32 is nearly identical. It is a shame the current VexRiscv bitstream for this board doesn't seem to support atomics though.