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Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh is stepping down after 21 years

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Re: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh is stepping down after 21 years

#131

Post by dvt »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #126
dvt wrote: post #82

I want to also counter-balance the negativity towards Hsieh with my own experience. From 2015-2017, I worked at Edmunds.com which was (to put it lightly) a bit obsessed with "Delivering Happiness" and Zappos' culture. So much so, that the leadership team visited Vegas to get a tour of the Zappos HQ (this was before I joined). But Edmunds based their entire cultural approach, including hiring, interviewing, and onboar…

> We seem to forget that people are inherently social and need a sense of belonging. As someone who used to work at a company that also was fairly well known for its 'cultish' culture, while I agree with your statement above, I also strongly believe that the modern corporate workplace is fundamentally incompatible with the sense of social belonging that humans need. Worse, many smart people take advantage of this nee…

> As someone who used to work at a company that also was fairly well known for its 'cultish' culture, while I agree with your statement above, I also strongly believe that the modern corporate workplace is fundamentally incompatible with the sense of social belonging that humans need. Worse, many smart people take advantage of this need for a sense of belonging with the sole goal of making more money for rich people.

Totally agree with this and you should always draw a line between "work stuff" and "personal stuff." There's definitely a dark side here. However, I do think there's value in making your employees feel welcome and wanted.

Re: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh is stepping down after 21 years

#132

Post by PopeDotNinja »

ascendantlogic wrote: post #112
meddlepal wrote: post #39

Worked with someone that had bought into the cult of Zappos as an HR/Head of People/Whatever the fuck you want to call it these days. They were gross. The happiness culture is toxic and if you don't buy into it and aren't projecting rays of sunshine 24/7 from all your orifices you're expected to just fuck off.

Going by your tone I'm going to assume you almost never project rays of sunshine from any orifices and maybe it's not their culture of happiness that's the problem.

I don't project sunshine or toxic mojo all day, but if you try to pump sunshine up my butt, you're going to encounter some of my shit.

Re: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh is stepping down after 21 years

#133

Post by ashtonkem »

nradov wrote: post #57
jerlam wrote: post #21

A few years back, I went to their office tour in Vegas, and I've read Hsieh's book, which doesn't cover much of the post-Amazon years. It seemed pretty clear to me that Zappos was in decline as an independent entity. Fulfillment was already gone. They were in the middle of removing their product photography team. A section of their office was being used as a community co-working space. There were fun quirky office ar…

Some people can pretend to believe anything for a paycheck.

There’s a fine line between trying to to welcome people to a new culture, and being creepy.

Personally I find the “we’re a family” attitude of a lot of these places deeply offputting; most families won’t lay off members when things get tough economically, so let’s stop pretending that we’re doing this for fun.

Re: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh is stepping down after 21 years

#134

Post by ashtonkem »

mdorazio wrote: post #96
dexterdog wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people I know order 3 or more to try and keep the one they like returning the others. Not sure how you can compete on price when people are doing that.

Easy. Don't compete on price. Compete on long-term customer value.

Customers will pay a premium if they think you’re going to take care of them.

That’s basically the business model of REI; they rarely have the best prices, but if something breaks they’ll make it right.

Re: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh is stepping down after 21 years

#135

Post by tyingq »

gkanai wrote: post #93

So 'holocracy' is a failure, alongside with Hsieh's fever dream of revitalizing downtown Las Vegas. Holocray was always a creepy idea to me.

It wasn't creepy to me, just unrealistic. Power structures form, whether you want them to or not. So 'holocracy' still has managers, it's just unpublished info who they are.

Re: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh is stepping down after 21 years

#136

Post by pirocks »

dboat wrote: post #107
meddlepal wrote: post #39

Worked with someone that had bought into the cult of Zappos as an HR/Head of People/Whatever the fuck you want to call it these days. They were gross. The happiness culture is toxic and if you don't buy into it and aren't projecting rays of sunshine 24/7 from all your orifices you're expected to just fuck off.

Your stance that they are overly intolerant would have more credibility if you had stated it more tastefully. As it is, you have lead me to believe your attitude was more likely the actual problem.

I mean often online discourse is different from real life discourse. Additionally I could imagine that OP could be fairly upset about this, I know such a culture would drive me insane after a few days.

Re: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh is stepping down after 21 years

#137

Post by Rapzid »

tyingq wrote: post #19
willio58 wrote: post #2

I've always heard mixed feelings about Tony. I wonder if there are any HNers who have a perspective they'd like to share.

I interviewed there in 2007, and I got about 45 minutes with him. He's definitely really smart, and seems honest...but has some ideas that are pretty polarizing. It was clear to me in the first 5 minutes that I wouldn't fit in. Over the rest of the interview with various folks there was a distinct split of believers and "yeah this place is weird, but I can't leave just yet" groups. Pretty clearly it works though. Edi…

That sounds entertaining TBH. Worked at a place a bit like that; could have been a test but as simple as seeing how you dealt with random fun.

Re: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh is stepping down after 21 years

#138

Post by icelancer »

arkitaip wrote: post #68
icelancer wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know him a little. He's as-expected based on all the writings on him, as most people will tell you. He's weird. Works his ass off. "Good" to his employees if you're into the cult-ish like environment he's about. Completely tanked DT Las Vegas project, but that was easy to call. Way out of his skillset. A pretty good guy I think. Always followed through with promises to the best of his abilities, never did me wrong.…

What's weird about being kind and considerate?

That's not why he's weird. It's how he goes about it. I like Tony. And I don't personally think he's weird. But objectively... most people probably do and I understand why.

Re: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh is stepping down after 21 years

#139

Post by ponker »

dexterdog wrote: post #94
chiefalchemist wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony? Ppl then order more and are likely to keep more. Free returns is a means, not an ends.

Most people I know order 3 or more to try and keep the one they like returning the others. Not sure how you can compete on price when people are doing that.

That's why Zappos doesn't compete on price, I've never seen a shoe there listed at anything but MSRP. I still buy all my shoes there because I'm very picky about fit, so I order several pairs, wear them around the house, and then pick what I'm keeping and send the rest back.

Re: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh is stepping down after 21 years

#140

Post by ponker »

seibelj wrote: post #9
willio58 wrote: post #2

I've always heard mixed feelings about Tony. I wonder if there are any HNers who have a perspective they'd like to share.

I am leery of any company that comes off with culty-vibes and that was the impression I got from various media I read and watched about it. I’m sure it’s great for business but not for me, I am free thinker. Same reason I think Ray Dalio / Bridgewater is an insane asylum. I briefly worked with someone who did a stint there and he embraced the principles / radical transparency thing and it made him extremely hard (eve…

You can't be an island of radical transparency. It has to be an organizational thing, and even then you'd be well advised to not act that way with your spouse or at a retail store.
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