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Docker to rate limit image pulls

docker.com

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Re: Docker to rate limit image pulls

#131

Post by cddotdotslash »

msla wrote: post #109
rubyn00bie wrote: post #99

I originally came here to ask how folks use that many docker images in six hours (I'm mostly a Docker n00b, and not being facetious); however, after reading the article, I clicked to see how much unlimited is and it's $5 a month. Now my question has changed to: is $5 a month really a deal breaker for folks to get unlimited? Or what are the use cases where the cost is prohibitive? Open source or community projects? In…

$5/month isn't $5/month. It's convincing your boss you need $5/month, because they need to convince their boss, which eventually makes its way up the chain to C-levels, who don't know Docker from yesterday's rotting tuna casserole and view eating either that or the $5/month with the same level of disdain. It isn't about the money, it's about the Mommy-May-I up and down the chain with emails and meetings and careful e…

If your C suite is personally approving a $5/month charge, your organization is likely no where near the size where a change like this from Docker impacts you.

Re: Docker to rate limit image pulls

#132

Post by pjmlp »

mm89 wrote: post #119
temikus wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be general resistance to a concept. More and more services are becoming subscription based, so 5$ here, 5$ there and the cost creeps further.

Exactly. It's hard enough to save money as it is. News websites blow my mind with this - if I forked over $5 to every news outlet I occasionally like to read, I'd be spending at least $500 maybe more per year JUST to get access to some random person's biased recant of what's happening in the world. If there were a news source that did the opposite of this, and basically provided a bullet list of objective, non-biased…

Mind blowing, imagine paying $5 for each newspaper one wants to read.

Re: Docker to rate limit image pulls

#133

Post by pjmlp »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #99

I originally came here to ask how folks use that many docker images in six hours (I'm mostly a Docker n00b, and not being facetious); however, after reading the article, I clicked to see how much unlimited is and it's $5 a month. Now my question has changed to: is $5 a month really a deal breaker for folks to get unlimited? Or what are the use cases where the cost is prohibitive? Open source or community projects? In…

It is pretty cheap, it is just the free beer crowd that is upset.

Re: Docker to rate limit image pulls

#134

Post by pjmlp »

theon144 wrote: post #15

Good! I'd even welcome much more agressive limits than what they're proposing; the current culture regarding builds and CI in general is horrifyingly ineffficient, wasteful and in the end just plain slow. I'm looking forward to developers adjusting their workflows (and caches, etc.) to actual, reasonable limits, not just perusing the service as if it were an unlimited cost-free cornucopia of software.

I welcome the end of free beer culture, so I am quite alright with their change.

Re: Docker to rate limit image pulls

#135

Post by muxator »

cddotdotslash wrote: post #131
msla wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$5/month isn't $5/month. It's convincing your boss you need $5/month, because they need to convince their boss, which eventually makes its way up the chain to C-levels, who don't know Docker from yesterday's rotting tuna casserole and view eating either that or the $5/month with the same level of disdain. It isn't about the money, it's about the Mommy-May-I up and down the chain with emails and meetings and careful e…

If your C suite is personally approving a $5/month charge, your organization is likely no where near the size where a change like this from Docker impacts you.

Or maybe your organization is a public institution, where each penny spent needs to be authorized/accounted for.

Re: Docker to rate limit image pulls

#136

Post by mschuster91 »

hamiltont wrote: post #110
ViViDboarder wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not common to need that many pulls nor is it hard to build your own images. If you’re deploying to a cluster with 200 machines, you could easily hit this if you use the public registry though. However, if you’re managing that size cluster you can probably afford the fee, but more importantly, you should probably pull once to a local registry and use that to deploy to your cluster anyway.

Do you run a local registry? Any high-quality articles/youtube talks to share? I'm about to set one up for our own little cluster (~5 machines, ~75 containers). I know tons about docker engine, and a fair bit about the registry, but it's always nice to watch a "lessons learned from actually doing this in production" talk to know what mistakes to avoid

Just drop a Sonatype Nexus instance on a Docker container somewhere on your network. Alternatively, use Squid if you don't push to the public Docker registry, although you might need to mess around with internal CA for SSL...

Re: Docker to rate limit image pulls

#137

Post by AaronFriel »

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #96
AaronFriel wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per your first link: > What if the content changes on the Hub? > When a pull is attempted with a tag, the Registry checks the remote to ensure if it has the latest version of the requested content. Otherwise, it fetches and caches the latest content. If that causes a manifest pull, it counts as a pull and will be rate limited. Yikes! This could lead to wildly nondeterministic behavior.

Yes, it does a pull but caches the response, so subsequent pulls should hit the local cache and not be limited.

I don't think that's what it means.

> When a pull is attempted with a tag, the Registry checks the remote

Checking the remote is a manifest pull.

Re: Docker to rate limit image pulls

#138

Post by Pet_Ant »

cddotdotslash wrote: post #131
msla wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$5/month isn't $5/month. It's convincing your boss you need $5/month, because they need to convince their boss, which eventually makes its way up the chain to C-levels, who don't know Docker from yesterday's rotting tuna casserole and view eating either that or the $5/month with the same level of disdain. It isn't about the money, it's about the Mommy-May-I up and down the chain with emails and meetings and careful e…

If your C suite is personally approving a $5/month charge, your organization is likely no where near the size where a change like this from Docker impacts you.

Worked at a place where everything went through the VP finance and they were making $15M/yr profit. At one point we brought ion a desktop off of the curb to use as our build server. Sure, we got in trouble with ops later but those above us didn't care since it didn't cost us anything.

Re: Docker to rate limit image pulls

#139

Post by pjmlp »

zapita wrote: post #65
pm90 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They won the container war but lost the orchestration war. Even if docker compose was successful though, I fail to see how the clouds wouldn’t just replicate everything. So I guess they just failed to monetize the technology.

> So I guess they just failed to monetize the technology. Yes, it's really that simple. All those "container wars" and "orchestration wars" are a distraction from the core issue, which is that all those container and orchestration tools are open-source, and it's very hard to build a viable business on top of them. Docker tried and failed, like most startups involved.

Anyone that wants to make money with developer tools with the free beer generation, can only focus on enterprise customers, while adopting the traditional sales models.

Even here, when commercial projects are show, there is always an endless thread of free beer open source alternatives.

Re: Docker to rate limit image pulls

#140

Post by AaronFriel »

michaelmrose wrote: post #75
AaronFriel wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can either monetize the thing that brings you business directly, adversarially impacting users. Or you can monetize something else that's correlated to those costs to subsidize the main use case and keep new user acquisition frictionless. Like NPM charging large businesses with special needs with NPM Enterprise, or GitHub with teams and CI/CD features and GitHub Enterprise, and so on. Docker sold off Docker Enter…

Forgive my unfamiliarity. From the article >We’ve been getting questions from customers and the community regarding container image layers. We are not counting image layers as part of the pull rate limits. Because we are limiting on manifest requests, > For example, roughly 30% of all downloads on Hub come from only 1% of our anonymous users. The limits appear to be 100 pulls per 6 hour time frame per ip address for…

> Do you really need, given the possibility to cache downloads, to pull a new image every 1.8 minutes in environments where paying $5 a month for individuals or $25 a month for a team would be prohibitive?

Given that even a "docker build" does a manifest pull, it's not just "new images", but existing ones as well.

Now expand that to a team that say, builds 10 images in parallel using Docker Compose. Now it's a build every ~18 minutes will hit the limit. Larger builds, like say a CI system building every time there's a push to a branch? Yikes.

I've expressed my thoughts in detail here about why I think they should find another avenue to monetize Docker: https://twitter.com/AaronFriel/status/1297988737981247488

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