You cannot estimate debugging time.
Why Can't Developers Estimate Time?
131–134 of 134 posts
Re: Why Can't Developers Estimate Time?
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sometimes they are promises. To customers. Who've already paid for it. :S
Ohhh, my bad, I totally forgot that people like selling things that don't exist but telling everyone else they do exist.
famous case:
http://www.itworld.com/waste-management-sues-sap-080327
"At that meeting, SAP AG executives and engineers represented that the software was a mature solution and conducted a demonstration consisting of what they represented was the actual SAP Waste and Recycling software," the complaint states. The company later discovered that the software was a "mock-up version of that software intended to deceive Waste Management," according to the complaint. SAP has admitted to this in "internal documents," the complaint states.
"From the beginning, SAP assured Waste Management that its software was an 'out-of-the-box' solution that would meet Waste Management's needs without any customization or enhancements," the statement reads. "Unfortunately, Waste Management ultimately learned that these representations were not true."
Re: Why Can't Developers Estimate Time?
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the problem is that if you promise a manager something The real problem is thinking of "estimates" as "promises" when really they're rough guesses. If you go around holding people to a guess as if it were some kind of gospel biblical contract then yes, they will lie their ass off to protect themselves. Combine that with the fact that most organizations attempt to control the platform used, computers used, monitor s…
My favorite is when conflicting estimates are asked for, then BOTH taken as promises. Manager ADD Manager: "How quick can you get this done?" MFer: "3months (assuming price is no object)" Two weeks pass... Manager: "Our budgets changed. How much $$ can we trim out of this project?" MFer: "We can cut it in half, but that will triple our timeline." Manager: "cut in half! Great!" 3months pass: Manager: "Hey why are we b…
Who are you?
Re: Why Can't Developers Estimate Time?
#134There are 2 sides to this, one of which is detailed in most comments below, and I see it from a lot of devs I work with but mainly the less experienced ones, and that is the eternal optimism issue. That's been covered a lot already, so no point in belaboring that. The OTHER side is that, at least given my experience in the financial software domain, managers don't WANT accurate estimates. They absolutely abhor them.…
"It's a win/win to provide sub-par product" Only if sub-par means limited scope. If sub-par means buggy, you might damage your reputation.
Actually, no. It's a win in that case too, as I mentioned. The customer gets something to complain about, so they win by appearing thorough and tough on the vendor, and the manager gets something to fix, and wins by appearing reactive to customer needs/wishes. I've seen this scenario so many times over my last 25 years of doing this. To date, I've only had 1 manager admit that's what's actually taking place.