Does any company or person do privacy audits of these smart home devices? At the very least doesn't seem difficult to sniff packets sent out on the home network? Seems like it is generally accepted that these things are a privacy nightmare but haven't seen a lot of actual analysis.
Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands
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Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just like they would never scan the content of your emails and serve up targeted ads based on that... Oh, wait, they were doing that up until 2017...
And they were upfront with it. When GMail was released, they straight up told users that’s how they were paying for the enormous 1GB storage.
Ask average person - hell, average techie - about it, and I'm pretty certain you'll discover they don't know what you're talking about.
They really weren't up front about it, they might have just not been hiding it very hard.
Part of the solution to the tech vs. privacy problems could be forcing companies to be actually up front about their business models. After all, it's not wrong for an individual to give up their data, after being informed about what is requested and what will be done with it. The wrong behavior is having a business model that depends on most customers not being aware their data is being mined and used against them.
Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands
#133How could people on HN be surprised about that kind of thing ?
We would all be surprised if it turns out that a giant corporation who sells you always-on networked microphones wasn't abusing it in any way, shape or form. Here's a slippery slope for you: 1. "OK Google, order pizza from Sal's." 2. "Broken glass detected in living room. Should I call police?" 3. "The baby has been crying for more than 60 minutes. Do you want assistance?" 4. "Shots fired. Calling 911 now." 2016-2020…
> Watching an unusually well-Foleyed action movie on a good sound system can probably fool any recognition system Google can jam into next year's $150 smart speaker.
Many of the smart speakers use microphone arrays. Amazon Echo has 7 in its array, showing that arrays are feasible in $150 smart speakers (Echo 3rd Gen is $100). Even the Echo Dot has 4. Google seems a little lacking in this respect--Google Home only had 2 it seems.
These devices then should be able to recognize that a sound they hear, like glass breaking, is actually coming from more that one distinct source, and the directions of those sources. It should also be able to recognize that it often hears duplicated sounds from those same directions, and infer that this is where speakers for the user's home theater are.
It would be a neat feature, though, if these smart speakers recognized the sounds that home theaters calibration systems such as Audyssey use so after you get a smart speaker, you could tell you A/V receiver to run through calibration. The smart speaker could then recognize that and learn about all of your home theater speakers.
Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
So GP is a sociopath for choosing to use a Google Home?
GP is a sociopath for acknowledging that it is a valid issue, but it doesn't affect them, so "I just don't particularly care" is the real tell.
For most people they're personally investing their energy in what they consider more important issues. We all only have so much energy to go around, and this obviously comes low on GP's list. This is in the same vain as online advertising or buying food from supermarkets over local stores.
Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands
#135I get gizmos like this as gifts every now and then. I never bothered opening any of them up. What are some fun things that we can do with these things besides their intended use?
Would be a fun open source project to find the cheapest board that can fit in the box, ideally take some components (speakers, WiFi) and have similar functionality like controlling music, home devices, setting timers. I’d try to contribute if anyone is working on topics like this.
Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands
#136I might sound like a grumpy old granddad to some of you (and I am not even that old), but did you really think that a huge company would offer to put microphones into your living room for your advantage? They are going to benefit from this and you are going to pay for it. How? For instance with dynamic pricing. Your loved ones tell you how much they want that vacation on that Greek island? Good luck finding a cheap f…
Any of those things would be such massive trust violations that the fallout would almost certainly sink the product and badly tarnish the company. That's not saying a company wouldn't be stupid enough to try it, but it's very clearly a bad business decision - so logically they wouldn't do it.
it's absolutely a good business decision, because you place too much value in the bad pr. there is almost none.
facebook has done a crazy number of bad things. a few nerds like me hopped of, and total their user base grew. but nerds like me never had facebook in the first place.
linkedin used your password to log into your emails and download them, then spam people in your contacts with invites, coming from you. then they sold user data to facebook. now their app was caught copying clipboard data from your phone and computer. no one cares, except for me who has a harder time finding work -because i'm not on linked in.
giving you bad flight prices when you're looking for flights? that literally happened. but surprise -you don't remember.
Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just like they would never scan the content of your emails and serve up targeted ads based on that... Oh, wait, they were doing that up until 2017...
And they were upfront with it. When GMail was released, they straight up told users that’s how they were paying for the enormous 1GB storage.
Are you sure? Where's the citation to back that up?
What I remember are many products released around that time by Google, et al that were sold to us as: we're making gobs of money off of our core offering (e.g. search + little text-based ads), that we can afford to all this other stuff for the benefit of humanity. So much was sold as "making the world a better place". The other sales pitch we got amounted to, "don't worry about it, we'll monetize later."
Nobody was up-front in those days. Which is why not a month has gone by where ToS or Privacy Policy changes need another click to accept to keep using. The frog was certainly slow-boiled.
Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands
#138[deleted]
Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands
#139What the hell is going on in the comments here? It's like half the comments are edgelords with some version of "i am shocked that an advertising company would do such a thing"
Has HN just turned into Reddit? Do people really not care that people's privacy is being dumped down the toilet? Google is known for shit like this. They even scan your emails and alert you when bills are due. Shit like that is not ok. Don't fuck with my privacy unless I opt in.
Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands
#140I had one of these when I worked for Google, I didn’t quite trust it though, so I had it in the bathroom to limit what my employer could listen to. Imagine discussing a product idea at home with friends, then having that stolen by an engineer at one of these companies (who figured out how to find the interesting conversations) for a promotion or new position. On a larger scale these might get hooked up with some adve…
...so I had it in the bathroom to limit what my employer could listen to. Uh, this feels like Opposite Day.
This is a good choice of location. If they snoop on GP, they'll hear exactly what they deserve to hear.