Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

500ish.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 151 posts

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#131

Post by [deleted] »

Drew_ wrote: post #100
frank2 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US president can probably compel Apple and Google to remove Tiktok from their app stores. Tiktok can appeal that action to the US court system and the US legislature, but those appeals would probably go nowhere. So a technically inclined Android user or a user of a jailbroken iOS device can probably continue to use Tiktok, with effort, but will have much fewer people to interact with using the service.

If the president can't compel Apple/Google to install backdoors, he can't compel them to remove TikTok.

[deleted]

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#132

Post by FooBarWidget »

ir77 wrote: post #129
FooBarWidget wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I think a few steps ahead, about the implications so what you say, then this is what I read: Unless the Chinese people overthrow their government, and succesfully install a democratic government, they do not deserve to gain wealth through business with the rest of the world, and do not deserve to live a good life. The chaos and suffering that such a process brings is not important. The unknown chance that a post-o…

china's masses have traded freedom and liberty for wealth and prosperity -- or i should say had them 'exchanged for them by their government'. but make no mistake, that wealth and prosperity is only there for those that support the regime, how are dissidents treated? how are muslims treated? i don't understand your argument, just because the chinese are wealthy and happy doesn't mean they can't be be shunned for thei…

That is not my argument at all. My argument is not, ignore the things you disagree with. It's: if you want to change them, that cannot be achieved just by denying business with them and with a 'my way or the highway' attitude. Instead, dialog and understanding yield better results. And you're not doing that.

You also state a number of things that I think are not as factual as you believe. I do not know whether you are interested in challenging those believes, so I will keep my mouth shut about them unless you indicate you are willing to.

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#133

Post by ir77 »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #132
ir77 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

china's masses have traded freedom and liberty for wealth and prosperity -- or i should say had them 'exchanged for them by their government'. but make no mistake, that wealth and prosperity is only there for those that support the regime, how are dissidents treated? how are muslims treated? i don't understand your argument, just because the chinese are wealthy and happy doesn't mean they can't be be shunned for thei…

That is not my argument at all. My argument is not, ignore the things you disagree with. It's: if you want to change them, that cannot be achieved just by denying business with them and with a 'my way or the highway' attitude. Instead, dialog and understanding yield better results. And you're not doing that. You also state a number of things that I think are not as factual as you believe. I do not know whether you ar…

no snide remark intended, but please do enlighten me.

i understand where you're coming from when you say "denying business with them"... but i believe that approach is taken because it is such a bottoms-down regime. because any business invariably gets approved by the regime and simply benefits the regime. it's not like a dissident is allowed to live there disconnected with the government and do business independently and start a voice/party to challenge the status quo -- that business man is there because the government allowed him to exist and he knows it.

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#134

Post by xvector »

refurb wrote: post #107
Drew_ wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we could try to be the country with better morals than China instead of posturing as one.

Protecting your own national security is immoral?!

Again with the “national security” argument. Yes, it’s immoral, just like PRISM and COINTELPRO and mass domestic surveillance and GITMO and the Patriot Act and the racism at the TSA and secret police and censorship are all immoral despite protecting “national security.”

“National security” is not a valid blanket excuse to implement draconian policies.

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#135

Post by FooBarWidget »

ir77 wrote: post #133
FooBarWidget wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not my argument at all. My argument is not, ignore the things you disagree with. It's: if you want to change them, that cannot be achieved just by denying business with them and with a 'my way or the highway' attitude. Instead, dialog and understanding yield better results. And you're not doing that. You also state a number of things that I think are not as factual as you believe. I do not know whether you ar…

no snide remark intended, but please do enlighten me. i understand where you're coming from when you say "denying business with them"... but i believe that approach is taken because it is such a bottoms-down regime. because any business invariably gets approved by the regime and simply benefits the regime. it's not like a dissident is allowed to live there disconnected with the government and do business independentl…

If you are interested in discussing such things, I suggest we take the discussion off HN, because HN is not the right place. Please feel free to reach out to me through the contact details you can find if you follow the links in my profile.

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#136

Post by refurb »

xvector wrote: post #134
refurb wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protecting your own national security is immoral?!

Again with the “national security” argument. Yes, it’s immoral, just like PRISM and COINTELPRO and mass domestic surveillance and GITMO and the Patriot Act and the racism at the TSA and secret police and censorship are all immoral despite protecting “national security.” “National security” is not a valid blanket excuse to implement draconian policies.

Why are you bring up all these other topics?

I'm talking about Tiktok. There is nothing amoral about protecting your country from data collection by a hostile foreign power.

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#137

Post by InitialLastName »

londons_explore wrote: post #37
pjc50 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, to summarise: the president of the United States is openly advocating applying illegal real estate extortion/bribery practices to major M&A deals with geopolitical implications Well, yes, because he's spent his entire career doing that and now he's President. See the case the NY AG is building against him.

Is it any different than just having a tax on purchasing foreign companies? It's the same as a tax on purchasing foreign goods, which is already in place for goods from China in the form of tariffs.

Tariffs aren't a tax on purchasing foreign goods. I can buy as many tons of steel as I'd like in China while paying no money to the US Government (as long as I can export the money, which is a different issue). Tariffs are taxes on importing foreign goods. That would only even conceivably be comparable if Microsoft were planning to relocate TikTok to the US; as it sounds like they're planning to relocate it to London, that wouldn't apply.

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#138

Post by xvector »

refurb wrote: post #136
xvector wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again with the “national security” argument. Yes, it’s immoral, just like PRISM and COINTELPRO and mass domestic surveillance and GITMO and the Patriot Act and the racism at the TSA and secret police and censorship are all immoral despite protecting “national security.” “National security” is not a valid blanket excuse to implement draconian policies.

Why are you bring up all these other topics? I'm talking about Tiktok. There is nothing amoral about protecting your country from data collection by a hostile foreign power.

No, it is definitely amoral censor media from your citizens and force buyouts of foreign corporations by inciting xenophobia, so you can now have access to said data instead and spy on your own citizens.

It is not that hard to see. It is amoral for the US to collect data on its own citizens, because historically, the government uses this data to erode our rights.

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#139

Post by thephyber »

Loughla wrote: post #60
sneak wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing Zoom does or does not do threatens the continued existence of the United States in any capacity. Calling nearly everything on or related to the internet a matter of "national security" is to demand that everything be overblown.

It's the new 'think of the children' argument. People can't be convinced it's used for child pornography, because that's pretty easy to prove/disprove. So now the boogeyman is national security.

"National Security" has always been the ultimate unfalsifiable accusation.

Only those who have access to the underlying classified information can legitimately make the argument. Those who don't have the same access must trust those who do.

The system breaks down quickly when the former group gets everyone into a war because they failed to vet the underlying intelligence or purposefully misconstrued the intelligence or they just moved the goalposts of "national security" to include preemption.

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#140

Post by jjeaff »

chvid wrote: post #3

Where is EU in this embarrassment? Suppose Margrethe Vestager called and said TikTok, you are banned unless you let a "very european" company take over your business? And by the way. We would like a cut. And would the US still being able to say "national security" if it was fully owned by German business running on servers in some Swiss mountain?

>And would the US still being able to say "national security" if it was fully owned by German business running on servers in some Swiss mountain?

I suppose they could. But I am fairly confident that if tiktok was a German company, this would not be happening. China is reaping what they sew here. On top of getting a taste of their own medicine.

It is unfortunate for the Chinese owners though that they have to pay the price for their government's actions.

Post reply on HN