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Nubank acquires Cognitect

cognitect.com

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Re: Nubank acquires Cognitect

#131

Post by jonahbenton »

jwr wrote: post #117

My entire business is built on Clojure and ClojureScript, and it would not have been possible without these languages. I am always slightly worried by this kind of news, because it means that the main Clojure team is now dependent on a single institution. But it could be good news as well, depending on how things go. Until now, I've been getting nothing but excellence from the Clojure team: not just great tools, but…

Would love to hear what you learn from engaging on any expectations you have for roadmap. I wrote separately that I see a bright (very bright, complete game changer) future for the toolchain in finance, but finance is a special ecosystem where general purpose languages with goofy syntax become niche- sometimes very large niche, but still niche.

Re: Nubank acquires Cognitect

#132

Post by phrygian »

jwr wrote: post #117

My entire business is built on Clojure and ClojureScript, and it would not have been possible without these languages. I am always slightly worried by this kind of news, because it means that the main Clojure team is now dependent on a single institution. But it could be good news as well, depending on how things go. Until now, I've been getting nothing but excellence from the Clojure team: not just great tools, but…

I suppose a question for you would be how has your business supported clojure(script)? It seems to me to be a case of a business that has benefited from clojure - and wants to be invested in its future - doing something about it. It cost something to provide what you built your business on :)

Re: Nubank acquires Cognitect

#133

Post by alexbanks »

orolle wrote: post #59
scribu wrote: post #20

Did anyone else notice that the biggest non-academic supporters of functional programming seem to be financial institutions? Is it due to the nature of the problem space? Is it because finance people tend to be more analytical? Something else?

It is nature of the problem space which requires you to produce high quality code. If you have a small error in your program, the financial market participants will use it against you to profit. What you loose, others win! Google "fat finger" for examples. In banking you have to keep track of every transactions, see "double accounting". You never delete a transaction, you only retract! Mutablity can cause you a lot o…

> It is nature of the problem space which requires you to produce high quality code.

Would love to see any actual data or studies showing that functional programming implicitly produces "high quality code".

Re: Nubank acquires Cognitect

#134

Post by geokon »

Does this mean Closure will continue to become more and more server/web focused?

I could have the wrong impression, but from all the dead libraries I've come across it feels like it used to be all over the place with people doing math, visualizations/art, music, people trying to run on Android (seemingly the only JVM language that has no Android ecosystem/workflow.. crazy) etc.. Now a lot of that has atrophied and looks like it's mostly all about web. Though there are still interesting nonweb things going on - it just feels like a shrinking fraction

Either way, a big congrats to the people involved. Happy for you guys. That you for all your hard work, the beautiful language that has made me enjoy programming more than ever, and all for free :)

Re: Nubank acquires Cognitect

#135

Post by Heliosmaster »

geokon wrote: post #134

Does this mean Closure will continue to become more and more server/web focused? I could have the wrong impression, but from all the dead libraries I've come across it feels like it used to be all over the place with people doing math, visualizations/art, music, people trying to run on Android (seemingly the only JVM language that has no Android ecosystem/workflow.. crazy) etc.. Now a lot of that has atrophied and lo…

FWIW Clojurescript can also be used in ESP32: https://blog.tindie.com/2020/07/clojurescript-on-esp32-why-n...

Mike Fikes and the team at Vouch.io are doing some interesting work there, using cljs for IOT.

Re: Nubank acquires Cognitect

#136

Post by juskrey »

jonahbenton wrote: post #120
juskrey wrote: post #86

Pretty strange how no one else sees that banks are very very fragile institutions, plus this one is heavily VC-ed, which makes everything they claim in public irrelevant (this is if we want to trust what any bank says at all). What is relevant is that Cognitect will now have 100% of income coming from the single (and fragile) source, they now do not have to compete and survive on their own, they can't say "no" when h…

With respect, I see where you are coming from, but would argue it isn't necessarily the right read, either in terms of banks, or in terms of Clojure, though there is nuance. Banks are systemic actors in the financial system. They have privileges granted only to them, requirements that only they have to meet. It is HARD to build and operate a bank, whether in the US or in another country. From a "fragility" perspectiv…

I have no issues with financial things per se - I have built several financial systems (from crypto to funds management) with Datomic and Clojure myself.

And this is also one of the reasons I think having sole bank as your owner is a really really bad thing.

Re: Nubank acquires Cognitect

#137

Post by kinleyd »

jonahbenton wrote: post #120
juskrey wrote: post #86

Pretty strange how no one else sees that banks are very very fragile institutions, plus this one is heavily VC-ed, which makes everything they claim in public irrelevant (this is if we want to trust what any bank says at all). What is relevant is that Cognitect will now have 100% of income coming from the single (and fragile) source, they now do not have to compete and survive on their own, they can't say "no" when h…

With respect, I see where you are coming from, but would argue it isn't necessarily the right read, either in terms of banks, or in terms of Clojure, though there is nuance. Banks are systemic actors in the financial system. They have privileges granted only to them, requirements that only they have to meet. It is HARD to build and operate a bank, whether in the US or in another country. From a "fragility" perspectiv…

An excellent assessment - Rich, Stu and team clearly must have assessed the option similarly. Congratulations to Cognitect and here's wishing them well.

Re: Nubank acquires Cognitect

#138

Post by whoisjuan »

cemerick wrote: post #122
whoisjuan wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banks are not insured against failure and not protected. Well. Except they are. In the US not only at the federal level but also at the state level: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deposit_insurance - https://www.fdic.gov/deposit/ - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Deposit_Insurance_Corp... - https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/17/business/bank-earnings-defaul...

You are mistaking what is insured here. Deposits are insured, the banks themselves are not. Here's the list of banks that have failed in the US and for which their deposits entered receivership managed by the FDIC; looks like a handful every year: https://www.fdic.gov/Bank/individual/failed/banklist.html

I'm not. I was trying to point to the OP that banks aren't as fragile as he think they are. When the very nature of your business, which is handling people's money, is federally insured, you have mitigated a lot of risk.

Yes banks can fail and they can go bankrupt, and if that happens to Nubank then this acquisition goes to hell which makes the Clojure ecosystem weaker. I give that to OP.

But saying that banks are "very very" fragile institutions I think is fundamentally wrong.

Re: Nubank acquires Cognitect

#139

Post by mark_l_watson »

davidrupp wrote: post #91
mark_l_watson wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps: Standard Chartered Singapore? I tried unsuccessfully to get a job with them about 4-5 years ago. They are a huge Haskell shop.

Sounds like a broken hiring process right there. Anything you care to share about why that didn't work out? I can't imagine a company having an opportunity to hire you and choosing not to.

I don't mind sharing about that. Standard Charter has the reputation for being a great Haskell shop and I have been trying for years to up my Haskell skills.

I simply didn't have enough background in Haskell. The interview was fun. The interviewer did his PhD in Haskell and compiler theory.

Around the same time, I applied to Facebook's Haskell group, and I got to interview with Simon Marlow, which was great. He also said that I didn't have enough Haskell experience and suggested that I do more Haskell consulting work, and re-apply in a year.

Anyway, I love coding in Haskell but my skills need improvement.

Re: Nubank acquires Cognitect

#140

Post by latortuga »

juskrey wrote: post #86

Pretty strange how no one else sees that banks are very very fragile institutions, plus this one is heavily VC-ed, which makes everything they claim in public irrelevant (this is if we want to trust what any bank says at all). What is relevant is that Cognitect will now have 100% of income coming from the single (and fragile) source, they now do not have to compete and survive on their own, they can't say "no" when h…

Cognitect is not winding down Datomic, Datomic Cloud, or Datomic consulting, and they have big name customers including Facebook and Netflix.
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