Live data from Hacker News

Video Games Are the Future of Education

nabeelqu.co

131–140 of 392 posts

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#131

Hot takes from people with no experience in the field are only interesting to other people who have no experience in the field. It seems developers are particularly prone to this hubris. I don't find many doctors writing about the future of programming languages, or teachers writing blogs about the future of medicine. Yet you can find thousands of these hot takes from developers about the future of education. Or pick…

> Hot takes from people with no experience in the field are only interesting to other people who have no experience in the field. It seems developers are particularly prone to this hubris.

This is definitely true about developers, and this is one of the biggest problems with HN.

That said, I think this particular article is spot on. Not everything is best taught through games, but right now 99% of stuff isn't taught at all, and a lot of the stuff that isn't taught could be taught through games.

FWIW the specific mistake you're making is thinking about this in a way that overemphasizes the context of the school system.

There’s also no contradiction between learning through games and learning by doing. Everything we do in real life has game-like properties, you just have to find them.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#132
I just watched the movie October Sky for the first time last night. It really resonated with me as I use to make my own rocket engines. I think kids figuring out things on their own is the real way to go. It’s going to have to come from the individual for it to matter.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#134
post #4

Video games style learning are great. But I don't know if a classroom of children systematically playing video games on a time based limit to learn a subject will be the same experience. Freedom and pace is what makes them a great medium. That's the opposite of our education system.

My kids go to a fairly highly-rated public elementary school in the midwest U.S., and in addition to live math instruction, they also have time allotted within their class to play www.prodigygame.com This is basically a turn-based RPG, but to make each turn successful, you solve a math problem whose difficulty has been selected based on your past performance. They also play it at home, and I believe it has strengthen…

My kid was very into Prodigy, but after a couple of months I discovered he was spending more time going around decorating his house and trying to talk to other kids through their limited chat feature. He ended up avoiding battles because he said it slowed down what he wanted to do.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#136
When I was in college (1982-1986), my summer job was at a computer facility that served the K-12 schools for a large county in the Midwest. They had a big room that was equipped with each kind of personal computer, so teachers could come and try them out, and demo copies of every software title that they could lay their hands on, including "educational" software. The world had not yet settled on IBM and Apple, and the Mac was still in the future.

Virtually all of the educational software was lame, amounting to Glorified Flash Cards with animated characters and other decorations. Most if not all have been forgotten.

Fast forward to the past decade or so, my kids both grew up in the Internet era. Educational software is now Web based of course. But it's still not very far removed from Glorified Flash Cards. The main new feature is surveillance, ranging from making sure that you covered the entire exercise, catching cheaters, and tracking your online behavior. Note what one of the other posts says about stuff being sold that school districts are likely to buy.

Okay, there were two "educational" software titles in the early 80s, worthy of note: Word processing and BASIC / Pascal. As I understand it, both BASIC and Pascal were created as teaching tools, but both are completely open ended and imply no specific curriculum. They also allow students to learn at their own pace if they want to, and resemble tools that people actually use in the "real world." They also fully expose you to the consequences of your mistakes.

What "educational" titles do we have today? My high school education predated the word processor. I believe that my kids learned to be good writers and thinkers because of the ability to do a lot of writing and have it read and critiqued easily. And I've never stopped learning from having a programming tool at my disposal, though it's Python instead of BASIC today. Once again, those tools contain no built-in agenda and provide total exposure to making and learning from mistakes.

My favorite educational game is Jupyter. It's not just for math and computation. It can be used for science too. Science has a peculiarity, that in order to really learn it, you have to experience how nature can prove you wrong. Building computerized experiments and measurements is one way to be exposed to this.

I believe that education is hard because it involves the brain, and we haven't figured out the brain. We'll be able to automate teaching when we can automate thinking. Meanwhile I think we can use software and automation to eliminate wasteful thinking, such as physical library searching and doing some kinds of mathematical manipulations by hand.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#137
post #59

I own a educational game company. Long story short: it doesn't sell. At my company we identified, at least if your target is kids, two ways to sell edu games. 1. Sell them to institutions, like governments, schools, companies, whatever. Thing is, the features they look when choosing a game to buy, are ones most likely to make the game unfun, the end result is often boring stuff noone WANTS to play. 2. Sell them to th…

I think this post wasn't about dedicated educational games, but rather education they occured naturally through gaming. E.g. Kerbal space program teaching basics of aerospace. One of the most prominent examples I had in my childhood was Fire Emblem for thr game boy. It's basically Kumon, you're constantly doing basic multiplication, addition, and substraction to tell whether a given unit will win in a fight. Similarl…

But how much are you learning relative to the amount of time you spend playing the game? I would expect a little of learning for a lot of time. You may as well study for a while and go play with your friends later.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#138
When I was in elementary school, my math class spent a good amount of time playing Roller Coaster Tycoon in small groups. I can't remember exactly how it worked, but I think we rotated who got to drive, while two or three other kids watched and gave advice.

While a lot of adults have fun pushing the boundaries of Roller Coaster Tycoon (e.g. designing roller coasters that smash into each other), we were very serious about it! The goal was to make a truly profitable park, and I remember having conversations about optimal ride and souvenir pricing, revenue per building, etc. (with our very limited vocabulary).

I think games need to be fun first and educational second to have any chance. We didn't realize we were learning while playing RCT, we were just excited by the challenge and the goal. The means to achieve the goal just happened to be loosely grounded in real world business practices.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#139
I've always thought that the civilization series are actually pretty educational: You spend hours and hours in this game, full of real world countries and leaders, and a huge wealth of information is stored in the "civipedia". If you get curious about a leader you can research them and who they were.

You learn, at very high level, how society progressed from sticks and stones to the modern age, and what level of sophistication technology was based on the date. Different forms of government, many other things.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#140
post #59

I own a educational game company. Long story short: it doesn't sell. At my company we identified, at least if your target is kids, two ways to sell edu games. 1. Sell them to institutions, like governments, schools, companies, whatever. Thing is, the features they look when choosing a game to buy, are ones most likely to make the game unfun, the end result is often boring stuff noone WANTS to play. 2. Sell them to th…

I think this post wasn't about dedicated educational games, but rather education they occured naturally through gaming. E.g. Kerbal space program teaching basics of aerospace. One of the most prominent examples I had in my childhood was Fire Emblem for thr game boy. It's basically Kumon, you're constantly doing basic multiplication, addition, and substraction to tell whether a given unit will win in a fight. Similarl…

Good point. Being more of a movie guy than a gamer watching some of the stuff these days on screen I keep wondering what education would be like if the people behind the Matrix or Pixar or Tom Cruise were involved in the design (alongside the pedagogical expert).
Post reply on HN