Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event • Hacker News Board

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#131

Post by sdinsn » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

at_a_remove wrote: post #35

I wonder if we'll hear the "they're a private company, they can do what they want, it is only censorship if the government does it" routine. I remember about a decade ago when certain parties were so concerned with voices being silenced and "erasure." The same people are now cheering when Facebook, Twitter, and the like shut down certain kinds of speech, with great discretion as to how the "rules" are implemented. Th…

> I wonder if we'll hear the "they're a private company, they can do what they want, it is only censorship if the government does it" routine.

Perhaps that applies, perhaps it doesn't. Did they remove the account due to pressure from the CCP?

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#132

Post by kelnos » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

cutemonster wrote: post #124

chongli wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem for China is that Xi Jinping has essentially installed himself as dictator-for-life. He now rides to and fro on a tiger from which he dare not dismount. The CCP witnessed the collapse of the Soviet Union and instead of opening up to a peaceful transition to democracy they chose to double down on top-down authoritarian policies. At the same time, they’ve sought to leverage markets for economic growth. The…

> he dare not dismount Sounds as if you think he wants to dismount

I think it was more a statement that it's difficult to maintain that facade perfectly, and a big misstep could bring the whole thing crashing down.

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#133

Post by deathgrips » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 8:47 PM UTC

ordinaryradical wrote: post #4

Aiding in the Chinese media's censorship is not good for China nor the world. When a government destroys the ability for it to be criticized it becomes untethered from consensus reality; megalomaniacs can take the reins and a kind of national hubris forms that can lead to devastating conflict and oppression. All governments need open dissent and criticism to keep from going down this path. Zoom should not be aiding a…

Communists don't think that political dialogue exists as a genuine process between rational actors. They think that people's political beliefs are a product of their environment and class. This is why they don't like free speech and don't like debates. They think that schools are only capable of indoctrination. Therefore they seek to turn this indoctrination in favor of the workers rather than the bourgeoisie.

Edit: if you disagree, please explain why. Marx believed that history moved according to dialectical materialism where almost all individuals are little more than atoms in a moving body.

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#134

Post by fsflover » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

Novukus wrote: post #118

robocat wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with what you are trying to say, but being snarky is against the hn guidelines. Edit: “against” is too strong a word - it isn’t a hard rule but I often see the hn community react negatively to sarcasm and snarkiness even though the content may be worthwhile.

After seeing plenty of discussions on HN where people expressed how they'd rather keep using Zoom despite 1) clear security issues and 2) the development teams living in China, I didn't feel there was any other way to express the issue (and the discrepancy in values). There seems to be a blindness to geopolitical realities in the tech world, and this occurrence is the perfect example.

Same pattern as with Windows unfortunately...

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#135

Post by mpfundstein » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

behnamoh wrote: post #103

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company tried to use Google Meet. With a group of around 16 people, Google Meet had all sorts of connection quality issues—people's voices cut out while talking, sounded garbled, etc. A week later, we tried Zoom instead. We could hear everyone clearly. We've used Zoom ever since. I had some say in the decision to continue with Zoom, and I feel kind of bad about choosing it, but it's hard to argue with the results.…

The reason I'm not using Google Meet is because there's no guarantee about the continuity of the service a few years down the road. I think it's a reasonable fear about every Google product (except for search, gmail, and YT). I don't wanna rely on a service that gets discontinued by Google just like their other popular products e.g. Reader, Plus, Glass, etc.

what does that matter now? its not that there is a high cost of switching...

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#136

Post by Aunche » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

In typical internet activist fashion, always assume malice.

Zoom has 300 million participants a day. Even if they accidentally bans a Chinese activist with the same probability as any other person, the media will only report those instances because Zoom happens to have a Chinese American CEO.

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#137

Post by cutemonster » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 8:49 PM UTC

kodablah wrote: post #18

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #3

> Zoom did not respond to a request for comment. When you can't say anything that won't get you into deeper trouble, say nothing at all.

A similar silence occurred when Marriott fired the guy over the tweet about Tibet. In fact, they were forced to apologize [0]. I kinda hope Zoom is forced to apologize by China as well to at least clarify the type of company they are. 0 - https://twitter.com/MarriottBonvoy/status/951344031405084673

> Zoom is forced to apologize by China

Why would China want them to apologize? (Or there's a typo?)

Didn't zoom do what C wanted already

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#138

Post by brnt » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 8:49 PM UTC

at_a_remove wrote: post #35

I wonder if we'll hear the "they're a private company, they can do what they want, it is only censorship if the government does it" routine. I remember about a decade ago when certain parties were so concerned with voices being silenced and "erasure." The same people are now cheering when Facebook, Twitter, and the like shut down certain kinds of speech, with great discretion as to how the "rules" are implemented. Th…

Going after bigots on your platform does not equal going after activists. Please do not intentionally confuse the two.

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#139

Post by bakul » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 8:49 PM UTC

behnamoh wrote: post #103

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company tried to use Google Meet. With a group of around 16 people, Google Meet had all sorts of connection quality issues—people's voices cut out while talking, sounded garbled, etc. A week later, we tried Zoom instead. We could hear everyone clearly. We've used Zoom ever since. I had some say in the decision to continue with Zoom, and I feel kind of bad about choosing it, but it's hard to argue with the results.…

The reason I'm not using Google Meet is because there's no guarantee about the continuity of the service a few years down the road. I think it's a reasonable fear about every Google product (except for search, gmail, and YT). I don't wanna rely on a service that gets discontinued by Google just like their other popular products e.g. Reader, Plus, Glass, etc.

If it works well enough, it would be a fine choice to connect with your friends/colleagues while you are stuck at home due to the corona virus. A few years down the road there will be new products!

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#140

Post by thePunisher » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 8:50 PM UTC

kdamica wrote: post #39

I remember the good old days when we all thought that tech would help export democracy and free speech...

That's why I keep calling for a NEW Internet to be created based on HORNET technology. HORNET is basically the same as the Tor network, but with speeds similar to the current internet.

Sites can't be traced or blocked and neither can its users. There will be free speech, along with all its excesses (terrorism, child porn, illegal content sharing etc.).

If everyone migrates towards the HORNET internet authoritarian regimes will either have the choice to block the entire internet (causing massive economic damage) or allowing free speech.