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"Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

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Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't entirely true. Amazon.com uses EC2 in addition to dedicated servers. http://searchcloudcomputing.techtarget.com/news/1516269/Amaz...

"She's the director of IT services for the retail giant, although she has nothing to do with the main website operations"

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jennifer-boden/1/86/ba6

Unless Amazon has managers named Jen Boden, Jen Boden is a Business and HR director, not IT director.

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#132
post #70

Generally speaking this is the sort of thing that people warn about when they say "if you want to run on a cloud, you need to design your application for a cloud". Meaning, you can't presume your infrastructure is dedicated and carries similar MTBFs of (say) an enterprise hard drive, which upwards of 1 million hours. Amazon provides plenty of opportunities to mitigate for this, such as providing multiple availability…

> modulo hiccups that can bring it down by a factor of 5. The comments on reddit indicated hiccups more on a factor of 10x and, sometimes, 100x. Either way, the issue is that the more drives you add to your RAID0, the more often one of those drives experiences a "hiccup," and kills the performance of the entire volume.

It's not clear this was a single volume problem so much as an issue with one or more network switches in that availability zone (if you look at the AWS service health notes for that date).

Even in your own data centre, if your FC fabric goes wonky, your whole SAN is hosed.

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#133
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to snapshot at the system level anyway if you want a consistent snapshot: otherwise the filesystem (or your database) could have been reordering and delaying writes that end up not being part of the "consistent snapshot". This is simply not a RAID-specific issue, nor is it a problem with EBS (as it is generally easy to use LVM, xfs, and/or PostgreSQL to handle that part of the job).

This is something I've never quite understood. Best practice guides say you need to do a "flush all tables" in MySQL and then do a filesystem freeze (possible in XFS) before you can use a snapshot system like the ones built into EBS or LVM. If you don't, you apparently stand a good chance of getting an inconsistent snapshot, even if the snapshotting mechanism itself is (like EBS and LVM) "point in time" consistent. W…

This is one reason why Oracle is still the gold standard. when entering hot backup mode, which is what you do during a snapshot, it logs the FULL BLOCKS that are changed. Failures and inconsistencies can be replayed from the archive logs.

Of course this means you can quickly blow out your log archival , so it's meant to be a transitory mode:

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something I've never quite understood. Best practice guides say you need to do a "flush all tables" in MySQL and then do a filesystem freeze (possible in XFS) before you can use a snapshot system like the ones built into EBS or LVM. If you don't, you apparently stand a good chance of getting an inconsistent snapshot, even if the snapshotting mechanism itself is (like EBS and LVM) "point in time" consistent. W…

This is one reason why Oracle is still the gold standard. when entering hot backup mode, which is what you do during a snapshot, it logs the FULL BLOCKS that are changed. Failures and inconsistencies can be replayed from the archive logs. Of course this means you can quickly blow out your log archival , so it's meant to be a transitory mode:

PostgreSQL has this exact same feature.

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#135
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to snapshot at the system level anyway if you want a consistent snapshot: otherwise the filesystem (or your database) could have been reordering and delaying writes that end up not being part of the "consistent snapshot". This is simply not a RAID-specific issue, nor is it a problem with EBS (as it is generally easy to use LVM, xfs, and/or PostgreSQL to handle that part of the job).

This is something I've never quite understood. Best practice guides say you need to do a "flush all tables" in MySQL and then do a filesystem freeze (possible in XFS) before you can use a snapshot system like the ones built into EBS or LVM. If you don't, you apparently stand a good chance of getting an inconsistent snapshot, even if the snapshotting mechanism itself is (like EBS and LVM) "point in time" consistent. W…

In the specific case of a database server that actually has correct fsync semantics that the user has not disabled for some crazy performance reason, you are correct. However, there are many use cases that people want consistent snapshots across, like "apt-get install", that do not use a write barrier for every atomic-feeling operation.

(In fact, with a good database solution, like PostgreSQL, the RAID issue of the parent post is also solved: put your write-ahead or checkpoint logs on a single device, as its linear writes will easily swamp network I/O on an EBS, and use RAID only for backend storage, where you need random I/O.)

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We looked at RDS and had a call with some of their engineers, but we basically had our EC2 + raid'd EBS set up almost the same as they did, all best practices already being done. Since RDS really is EC2 + EBS, they couldn't provide any real assurances it performed better than our own installation. We ended up moving off of AWS as a whole. After several discussions about how we can continue to scale, the ultimate answ…

Yeah they have a few products (e.g. EMR, RDS) where they charge by the instance anyway so you're just paying them by the hour for the five minutes it would take you to set up the server once

Hmm. I think you underestimate the effort that is spent on those two. RDS has really good replication which is really hard to configure and set up yourself. And having configured Hadoop I know it takes more than 5 minutes :) Perhaps Whirr makes that easier. Also, EMR's Hadoop is tuned to work really well with S3, which you don't get with stock Hadoop (or even with Cloudera's).

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The perspectives of disgruntled employees have been known to be worse than reality, on occasion. Not definitively saying that's the case here, just saying.

I work at Amazon - a lot of teams are like this. They're stuck managing a woefully broken product and spend all of their time propping up the beast, leaving no capacity left for meaningful fixes (in these cases, meaningful fixes are always gigantic engineering projects). The team develops a reputation internally for being glorified firefighting, and have trouble recruiting. More senior engineers eventually flee (havi…

This is very accurate of many teams within Amazon. Also, I don't know the exact story of what is happening with EBS now, but I have heard an increasing number of horror stories about EBS.

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#138
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if true, I don't think that comment is fair to the EBS team. It seems a likely reason for that behaviour is they don't have enough resource to work on and test (presumably) large changes to fix the underlying issue while also fixing the tickets which crop up. The tone of the comment seems to imply they're foolishly overlooking the obvious solution.

This is totally true, but at the same time, given the success and scale of AWS, it's insane that they would not have the resources they need.

The hiring market is very competitive right now. It is hard for Amazon (or anyone) to hire good engineers. I think this is exacerbated by Amazon's lack of perks. My opinion is that if Amazon wants to hire the best of the best to work on AWS products they need to stop being so cheap ("frugal") and match the perks (and pay) other software companies offer.

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#139

EMR is a mess too. The Amazon-blessed Pig is almost a year and 2 major releases behind, and the official EMR documentation seems to describe a version of EMR that doesn't even exist. "Elastic" is AWS's claim to fame, but I am not seeing it. Trying to resize an EMR cluster (which is half the point of having an EMR cluster instead of buying our own hardware) generates the cryptic error "Error: Cannot add instance group…

The master only job flow is designed to let users play around with the instance and discover things without having to pay for a full cluster. A single node versus multi-node cluster is configured way differently and that is why you can expand a single node cluster. If you had started with a two node cluster you would have been able to expand it.

Also, if you want Pig you should complain about it vocally on the EMR forum. That is the best way to get them to listen to you.

Re: "Amazon's EBSs are a barrel of laughs in terms of performance and reliability"

#140
Being totally new to AWS, why does everyone skip right past using ZFS?

http://blogs.sun.com/marchamilton/entry/a_brilliant_argument... "Cloud Storage Will Be Limited By Drive Reliability, Bandwidth ... The key feature of ZFS enabling data integrity is the 256-bit checksum that protects your data."

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