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Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

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Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#131

Post by trevorkoob »

prox wrote: post #65
trevorkoob wrote: post #43

Did my masters on Vitamin D - It is very difficult to extract CLINICALLY RELEVANT information from retrospective epidemiological studies. However, there a a few things that are clear: 1. Calcium absorption from the intestine increases with vitamin D supplementation dose up to around 8-10,000 IU D3 daily. 2. 15 minutes of full body exposure in noon sun is equivalent to a dose of ~20,000 IU D3 3. There are few cases of…

Do you know what would the baseline vitamine D intake been for our ancient (read : outdoor lifestyle) ancestors?

It depends - ancient ancestors had a lot of different lifestyles. For example, Soranus of Ephesus reported deformations in the bones of children as early as the 100 CE.

However, this is I think what you are trying to get at:

One particular epidemiological study stands out as a guide for what typical 25-(OH)D levels might have been be for our earliest ancestors.

Luxwolda et al. studied populations of pastoral Masai and hunter-gatherer Hadzabe, sampling their blood for 25-(OH)D levels and taking note of their daily habits in reference to UV exposure.

The mean 25-(OH)D concentration in these populations was 115 nmol/L, with a range of 58 nmol/L to 171 nmol/L.

This study provides a general framework for the expected 25-(OH)D level of active, healthy humans working outdoors at a low (< 5 degrees) latitude. Humans have modified their living conditions greatly from this model of ancestral life, leading to reduced exposure to UV radiation.

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#132

Post by anonuser123456 »

Izkata wrote: post #41
goda90 wrote: post #16

"Adipose tissue (“belly fat”) appears to absorb but not release vitamin D. If we want to do some armchair hypothesizing, perhaps people historically used to lose weight in winter, which definitely would release the stored vitamin D just when it was needed." This is an interesting idea. It's believed our bodies get fat to ensure we have energy when food is scarce. It makes sense that we'd also want to have vitamins av…

An addition to that: Over a decade ago (so unfortunately I have no reference, this just stuck with me for how against common sense it was) I remember reading that being overweight but not obese correlated with good health better than being "normal" weight did. Their theory was that if being sick made it so you were less hungry, you could still get an energy boost by using up fat reserves and be able to fight off illn…

>I remember reading that being overweight but not obese correlated with good health better than being "normal" weight did.

This is mostly selection bias. Society is so fat that being normal / underweight is correlated with sickness/disease.

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#133

Post by trevorkoob »

northern-lights wrote: post #92
gregwebs wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really dangerous advice to be peddling on internet forums. Statements 1 & 2 are both misleading. It is certainly true that a few high dosages of vitamin D are not harmful. The issue is the negative effects of having too high of a vitamin D status. Anyone taking more than 2k IU/day should do so after consulting their doctor or at least testing of their vitamin D levels.

Not sure why this is being downvoted. This advice is far more useful than OPs. Be careful of anyone claiming to be an expert on anything, especially on an anonymous forum - even if that forum has in general higher quality opinion. And the OP does not mention Vitamin K2 at all. How does anybody who claims to have done a Masters on Vitamin D not mention K2?

I didn't mention K2 because I didn't study it. I make no claim to expertise, only familiarity.

Personally, I eat dark green leafy vegetables every day - one serving of kale contains 443% daily value of vitamin K and I probably consume 2-3 servings a day.

Most food we eat doesn't contain vitamin D. A serving of farmed salmon, for example, contains about 250 IU D3 - 32% of the daily value.

In any case, I highly agree with not trusting anonymous internet opinions.

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#134

Post by jakeogh »

m0zg wrote: post #82

FYI also, researchers are suggesting that the Lancet HCQ study everyone (and the WHO) references nowadays is fake: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/29/covid-19-surgi... . The authors could not have had the data they claimed they had. This is just one bit of news you will never find on CNN.

Yep. More: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23305606

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#135

Post by prox »

trevorkoob wrote: post #131
prox wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know what would the baseline vitamine D intake been for our ancient (read : outdoor lifestyle) ancestors?

It depends - ancient ancestors had a lot of different lifestyles. For example, Soranus of Ephesus reported deformations in the bones of children as early as the 100 CE. However, this is I think what you are trying to get at: One particular epidemiological study stands out as a guide for what typical 25-(OH)D levels might have been be for our earliest ancestors. Luxwolda et al. studied populations of pastoral Masai an…

Thank you for your answer, that is pretty interesting!

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#136

Post by trevorkoob »

prox wrote: post #135
trevorkoob wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends - ancient ancestors had a lot of different lifestyles. For example, Soranus of Ephesus reported deformations in the bones of children as early as the 100 CE. However, this is I think what you are trying to get at: One particular epidemiological study stands out as a guide for what typical 25-(OH)D levels might have been be for our earliest ancestors. Luxwolda et al. studied populations of pastoral Masai an…

Thank you for your answer, that is pretty interesting!

Welcome! I highly recommend the study - even though the numbers are low, the data is very interesting.

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#137

Post by tim333 »

rafaelturk wrote: post #9

For me this is a perfect example of wishful thinking. It's really hard for average person to accept reality: This virus, like all others, will last for a long time. We won't have, in a foreseeable future, a treatment neither a cure. Cancer, HIV or even seasonal flue are good examples examples of diseases that were discovered decades ago for which science still don't have a cure, there are a few treatments or easing m…

The evidence is good that Vit D deficiency makes covid worse. Avoiding that is more common sense than a crazy solution.

Re the lasting for years, Thailand where I am has gone from 3000+ cases to zero local transmissions. Mostly from basic stuff like masks, testing and quarantine. I hope this can be replicated in other countries.

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#138

Post by DarthGhandi »

travisoneill1 wrote: post #78
elric wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re #2: the figure gets thrown around a lot. But who is outside, naked, at noon for fifteen minutes? It's really hard to translate that to anything meaningful or actionable. Here's a tool that can help calculate useful exposure depending on your location/time of year. Doesn't take clothing into account however.. https://fastrt.nilu.no/VitD-ez_quartMEDandMED_v2.html

The point is that being outside naked at noon every day for 15 minutes wouldn't hurt you. Therefore, a daily dose of 20,000 IU / day won't hurt you. Therefore, a 5000 IU supplement every day won't hurt you either.

That's a bold assumption to be making, especially regarding a fat soluble vitamin that builds up in the body.

A bag of carrots wont hurt you yet an equivalent dose of betacarotene (vit A) supplement definitely will and is strongly associated with increasing certain cancers. There's a reason you won't see those on the shelf apart from miniscule amounts in multivitamins.

Nothing in nutrition exists in a vacuum.

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#139

Post by _0ffh »

didgeoridoo wrote: post #51
trevorkoob wrote: post #43

Did my masters on Vitamin D - It is very difficult to extract CLINICALLY RELEVANT information from retrospective epidemiological studies. However, there a a few things that are clear: 1. Calcium absorption from the intestine increases with vitamin D supplementation dose up to around 8-10,000 IU D3 daily. 2. 15 minutes of full body exposure in noon sun is equivalent to a dose of ~20,000 IU D3 3. There are few cases of…

Interesting, I've always heard of the calcium absorption effect as a negative aspect of D over-supplementation — I guess the theory is that it raises your blood calcium level too high, leading to arterial calcification? Is that effect overblown in your opinion?

Not an expert, but from what I read that is exactly why you should not supplement high dosage vitamin D without also supplementing vitamin K2 (mk7 all-trans). Studies that show positive health effects from D3 typically supplement 40ug K2 for every 1000IU D3.

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#140

Post by _0ffh »

watertom wrote: post #20

Since I was a child I’ve been a walking respiratory illness machine. Bronchitis, sinusitis, flu, pneumonia, common cold, etc. During “flu” season I was usually sick for the entire season with a rotating assortment of viral respiratory issues, this lasted until about 7 years ago. 8 years ago in September I started taking 10,000 IU of vitamin D3 and 180mg of K2 daily. I haven’t had a deputies illness since. My children…

>180mg of K2 daily

Sorry the nitpicking, but may I assume you mean 180ug? That would be the normal order of magnitude for K2 supplementation.

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