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TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

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Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#131

Post by peteradio »

boudin wrote: post #98
dannyw wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if you do business in China and recognise Taiwan, you will be shown the door and/or your. business will be literally stolen, so... it's not really different. It's about time we start making China accountable. It's about time we start blocking Tencent and Alibaba from further American acquisition or investment. It's about time we restrict and throttle CCP-controlled media platforms like Tiktok; the same way Ch…

This approach will only have impact in short term. You can be sure that TSMC is working behind the scene to create a legal entity to work around this legislation and get one of its main customers back. There's just 2 potential outcomes: - TSMC having found a way to workaround that restrictions and gaining back Huwaeï - China being forced to quickly gain the same level of expertise In both situation the outcome is eve…

Total commoditization of the chip making process spread across borders. That greatly reduces the drive for China to invest in the technology, thus removing a handle on the global economy.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#132

Post by LatteLazy »

fermienrico wrote: post #30

To preface, firstly - I am a supporter of free global trade and greater collaboration between countries to maximize the benefit of each other. The problem starts when there is a massive asymmetry in the trade. China has completely blocked US services from Google to Uber, and gladly accepts manufacturing investment - Tesla Shanghai factory, Intel's Chengdu factory, etc. because the CCP knows that they will gain tremen…

I don't think you're wrong but...

Good luck convincing the average consumer (voter) to do without for a while and then pay more after that. They'll lynch you if they can't get the latest iTurd for 499.99 plus tax.

Also, as long as the CCP run China, they'll be stronger than the west (consumerism and short-termism and Chinese abuses of them aren't just US issues). We need them to democratise, consumer domestically and sort out other issues (wet markets, treatment of minorities). That's the long term win here. Convincing them to treat Google and Uber fairly is nice but it's not going to make them reasonable partners in 2,5,10,50 years time...

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#133

Post by jacquesm »

catalogia wrote: post #44
jacquesm wrote: post #17

And thus enables the Chinese semiconductor industry.

If that were obviously true, then why wouldn't the CCP just ban the import of silicon? Same effect without having to wait for America to do it, no?

Assuming that's a serious question: they don't have drop in replacements right now.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#134

Post by fluffything »

dannyw wrote: post #34
trixie_ wrote: post #14

Can we get the TSMC fab built in America first before stirring things up?

TSMC's fab is in Taiwan, not PRC. Given the critical nature of semiconductors, if China invaded Taiwan it's hard to see the US not getting involved. TSMC is Taiwan's largest company.

> if China invaded Taiwan it's hard to see the US not getting involved.

It's pretty much impossible to see the US getting involved.

The UN doesn't recognize Taiwan as an independent country, so China would just be exercising their authority over a chinese company, just like they do with Huawei, Lenovo, and many others.

NATO couldn't help either, because the US is not being militarily attacked by this. And well, the US has severed both their military ties with NATO, as well as their political ties with all countries in NATO (Paris agreement, Iran nuclear deal, tarifs, empty embassies, in bed with North Korea...). Also, many NATO countries are in bed with China economically, building the new Silk Road...

So... if China were to grab TSMC, and the US would try any kind of military action, who would support the US ? Europe, Russia, South Korea, Japan, South America, the Middle east, Australia, ... they would all stand by China. The US has been screwing them over the last 4 years, while China has been giving them money for them to return them the favor in a time like this.

Or do you imagine Trump going throughout the world kissing others asses to get their support?

Yeah, no. If Trump was "brave" enough to take military action, it would be game over before it even starts: world-wide embargo against the US, all US international companies assets frozen, the S&P500 would hit zero in a matter of days, inflation would explode, the troops wouldn't be getting paid, etc. The largest military force in the world would crumble in a week before even taking the first shot.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#135

Post by ekianjo »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #78
fermienrico wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I want to explore something related to morality - what is the end game of humans? If the end game is to fallback on tribal instincts and identity, then we are easily equiped to assure mutual destruction. If the end game is to keep inventing bigger, better, faster, cheaper things and climb on the technology ladder enabled by the machinery of competition, then there has to be fairness built into the rulebook. O…

I agree with the abstract idea of fairness, having rules, etc. But the devil lies in the implementation. A dogmatic free trade order mainly benefits the establishment: the western powers. If China adopts free trade principles in a dogmatic manner then they will be tremendously hurt by it. And it's not like the US plays very fair either: the US outright rejects a lot of international rules. For example there is a US l…

The US benefited from Free Trade and rose to prominency vs the UK so the idea that playing by the rules will not get you anywhere is pretty wrong.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#136

Post by hello_moto »

LatteLazy wrote: post #132
fermienrico wrote: post #30

To preface, firstly - I am a supporter of free global trade and greater collaboration between countries to maximize the benefit of each other. The problem starts when there is a massive asymmetry in the trade. China has completely blocked US services from Google to Uber, and gladly accepts manufacturing investment - Tesla Shanghai factory, Intel's Chengdu factory, etc. because the CCP knows that they will gain tremen…

I don't think you're wrong but... Good luck convincing the average consumer (voter) to do without for a while and then pay more after that. They'll lynch you if they can't get the latest iTurd for 499.99 plus tax. Also, as long as the CCP run China, they'll be stronger than the west (consumerism and short-termism and Chinese abuses of them aren't just US issues). We need them to democratise, consumer domestically and…

Wet markets is a too general/vague.

Wet markets exist are all over the world with similar setup like the one in China.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#137

Post by maxdo »

fermienrico wrote: post #30

To preface, firstly - I am a supporter of free global trade and greater collaboration between countries to maximize the benefit of each other. The problem starts when there is a massive asymmetry in the trade. China has completely blocked US services from Google to Uber, and gladly accepts manufacturing investment - Tesla Shanghai factory, Intel's Chengdu factory, etc. because the CCP knows that they will gain tremen…

Locking services is one thing, take as an example Xiaomi which started as an Apple copy. Right now it's a multibillion company. If copyright exists on China soil this company wouldn't exist at all and it will not take shares it has now. This is very basic path for many Chinese companies, yes, once they reach some volume they start to follow some rules since some grey area countries might ban them but till that moment they enjoy absolute freedom.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#138

Post by zaphirplane »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #124
adventured wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> According to the U.S.’s own policy, Taiwan and what we call China are the same country. That's a mistaken interpretation and it has been clarified on numerous occasions. There are two critical words to the context: recognize and acknowledge. And two separate entities to be considered as far as the US is concerned: China and Taiwan. The US has intentionally left the situation in limbo, to neither give in to China no…

I'm a bit curious why this is being down-voted. It is certainly a 100% accurate description of United States policy.

Perhaps to bury the argument ;)

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#140

Post by computerex »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #51
georgeburdell wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right but what does that have to do with a Taiwanese company? That’s the part I have trouble with. According to the U.S.’s own policy, Taiwan and what we call China are the same country. So the U.S. is putting restrictions on a company for taking business from another company from the same country. U.S. needs to work on making its foreign policy self consistent. Recognizing Taiwan as a separate country would be a gre…

If the US recognizes Taiwan, doesn't that make even less sense? On the one hand you're saying that Taiwan is sovereign, on the other hand you're saying, we the US call the shots.

How is recognizing Taiwan as a sovereign country that it is, saying that we are the ones calling the shots? The one China doctrine is a stupid attempt to save face. It's China throwing a tantrum. It's high time we stop putting up with such childish behavior, don't you think?
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