I hired a team of shoppers to find out how businesses were opening in Dallas • Hacker News Board

Re: I hired a team of shoppers to find out how businesses were opening in Dallas

#131

Post by malandrew » Mon, May 11, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

notyourday wrote: post #114

mindslight wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as there was "no evidence" that wearing a respirator reduces infection risk... The way I see it, everything coming into the house gets disinfected. This way, home can remain home, without eg needing to constantly over-worry about touching my face. I agree it's likely overboard, which is why I threw it out as an example of ridiculous things we are doing. But the advice on TV is, at best, meant to probabilisticall…

There's still no evidence that wearing masks reduces infection risk to the wearer. There is evidence that wearing masks reduces infection risk to those around the infectious wearer of the mask. It is, incidentally, the exact reasons surgeons wear masks -- not to protect themselves from a patient but to protect a patient from themselves.

While it may not prevent you from catching the disease, it's pretty much a certainty that it will help mitigate the initial infectious dose you experience if you are exposed. A low initial infectious dose buys your immune system more time to learn to produce antibodies.

Re: I hired a team of shoppers to find out how businesses were opening in Dallas

#132

Post by notyourday » Mon, May 11, 2020, 5:04 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #131

notyourday wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's still no evidence that wearing masks reduces infection risk to the wearer. There is evidence that wearing masks reduces infection risk to those around the infectious wearer of the mask. It is, incidentally, the exact reasons surgeons wear masks -- not to protect themselves from a patient but to protect a patient from themselves.

While it may not prevent you from catching the disease, it's pretty much a certainty that it will help mitigate the initial infectious dose you experience if you are exposed. A low initial infectious dose buys your immune system more time to learn to produce antibodies.

There's no evidence for this to be the case. If we are going to go into "It is common sense to do X" then why stop at "it is a common sense, wear a mask" and not include "It is common sense, if you have co-morbidity then it is you job to self-isolate and let the others to continue to function"

Re: I hired a team of shoppers to find out how businesses were opening in Dallas

#133

Post by pariahHN » Mon, May 11, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

notyourday wrote: post #114

mindslight wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as there was "no evidence" that wearing a respirator reduces infection risk... The way I see it, everything coming into the house gets disinfected. This way, home can remain home, without eg needing to constantly over-worry about touching my face. I agree it's likely overboard, which is why I threw it out as an example of ridiculous things we are doing. But the advice on TV is, at best, meant to probabilisticall…

There's still no evidence that wearing masks reduces infection risk to the wearer. There is evidence that wearing masks reduces infection risk to those around the infectious wearer of the mask. It is, incidentally, the exact reasons surgeons wear masks -- not to protect themselves from a patient but to protect a patient from themselves.

How would someone build a physical filter that only works in one direction? I'm having some trouble finding good sources on air filter design, I did see some mentions of differing porosity on different sides looking at HVAC filters but unfortunately no details on the mechanisms/principles behind it. Most of the information I have seen regarding lack of mask effectiveness comes from mask type, improper use, and conservation of supply for those most in need, not the actual mask itself, implying that masks are in fact effective if they are used properly, with effectiveness depending on mask design - your comment appears to be referring to use in general.

I would think however that placing any physical barrier in the path of an airflow is going to have an effect regardless of direction, as some non zero portion of particles are always going to impact the barrier.

Edit: It appears from other comments you may in fact be referring to improper use of masks that are also not specifically designed to maximize filtration ability. I would still submit that some degree of mitigation is better than none, but I can see how a false sense of safety could outweigh the benefits of the mask.

Re: I hired a team of shoppers to find out how businesses were opening in Dallas

#134

Post by bb611 » Mon, May 11, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

timbigman wrote: post #14

Of everyone doing this, I think that he should have more sympathy for those struggling during this time. Don't hire people to find violations. Help out people that are starving

This is a false choice, he could easily do both.

From a quick Google it appears he has in fact contributed to efforts for food donation, as well as childcare for healthcare workers.

Re: I hired a team of shoppers to find out how businesses were opening in Dallas

#135

Post by valuearb » Mon, May 11, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

valuearb wrote: post #51

torgian wrote: post #26

Wow, comment section there is a true dumpster fire. That said, it seems that America is just flailing about and hoping for the best. and not even expecting the worst if the comment section is to be believed.

It’s literally amazing. I never knew the Stasi were such a big cultural meme in Texas.

Wow, I’m getting downvoted for this innocuous observation?

Re: I hired a team of shoppers to find out how businesses were opening in Dallas

#136

Post by jonfw » Mon, May 11, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

smileysteve wrote: post #122

jonfw wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if that was true- why bother with regulation in the first place?

Because a significant portion does not imply that majority of the population will exercise prudence.

If a majority of the population doesn't exercise prudence, then it sounds like there is a very good chance for a restaurant to get back to full occupancy.

Re: I hired a team of shoppers to find out how businesses were opening in Dallas

#137

Post by pariahHN » Mon, May 11, 2020, 5:22 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #120

ceejayoz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got it backwards. New York's curve has flattened, and is trending downwards. When you remove New York from the US numbers, the trends look much worse. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/06/opinion/coron...

The detected cases are increasing due to an increase in testing. Nate Silver has a great post the other day where he broke down the fact that the ratio of new cases per test administered has gone down. I'm not saying we should all just act as normal, but I am saying that the media is creating a more pessimistic picture than is warranted by talking about positive cases without the context of an increase in tests admin…

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/number-of-covid-19-tests-...

Seems to confirm, 28% increase in the past month overall in tests performed per positive. But this graph doesn't give any regional focus unfortunately - all we can say is that on a national scale, the positive test rate is decreasing. It is entirely possible that there is an increase being hidden by a larger decrease in the hot spots, but the next month should give us the answer.

Re: I hired a team of shoppers to find out how businesses were opening in Dallas

#138

Post by valuearb » Mon, May 11, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

Press2forEN wrote: post #75

torgian wrote: post #26

Wow, comment section there is a true dumpster fire. That said, it seems that America is just flailing about and hoping for the best. and not even expecting the worst if the comment section is to be believed.

I don't think its unreasonable to be upset at what Cuban did here. People just want to go back to normal without a billionaire's hired snitch at the table next to them.

It’s like being upset at people posting photos of your disgusting restrooms on Yelp. A public business has to own its own behavior.

Cuban didn’t call out any businesses by name; it was a completely anonymous survey. But if your business is flouting safety expectations you should expect that eventually some customers are going to call you out publicly, with photos, videos etc as supporting evidence.

Mark Cuban did these businesses a favor, if they listen.

Re: I hired a team of shoppers to find out how businesses were opening in Dallas

#139

Post by valuearb » Mon, May 11, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

evmar wrote: post #13

kube-system wrote: post #4

Wow, the comments on that blog are a dumpster fire.

I know it's probably not "Russian bots", but... Two of the comments post the same CDC 2017 list, and both come from twitter accounts with 0 posts (one is 100% retweets of anti-"liberal" content). I'm never sure how plausible it is for someone to have the time to sit on twitter all day just to RT these things and then jump onto rando blogs to leave long comments like these.

It’s likely they get these words and phrases from a popular tv network, radio program or podcast. The fact they can’t spell them makes it less likely they read them from a popular columnist or blogger.

Re: I hired a team of shoppers to find out how businesses were opening in Dallas

#140

Post by justin66 » Mon, May 11, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #22

Nbox9 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand how people can think complete eradication is even possible. Eradication, to the point that contract tracing is a viable containment method, has been achieved by other countries. It is completely possible.

So we're seeing two different methods: Sweden (and I guess soon, the UK and the rest of the world) taking measures to slow the spread, but realizing it will spread to everyone. South Kora, New Zealand, etc where they are going for complete elimination. Now ask yourself this ... when will South Korea or NZ be able to reopen their borders? They will have little to no immunity, so possibly not for a year or more.

> They will have little to no immunity, so possibly not for a year or more.

That last bit is a moot point. Herd immunity is not something we aspire to here in the United States. Even if infection results in immunity, which has not been proven yet, the number of people infected in the US that would be needed for herd immunity would involve millions of people dying.

> So we're seeing two different methods: Sweden (and I guess soon, the UK and the rest of the world) taking measures to slow the spread, but realizing it will spread to everyone.

I expect that's a pretty cartoonish reading of Sweden's public policy. (The UK's public policy is cartoonish lately, but they've definitely backed away from "let's all get sick.")