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Your mobile data sold, without your knowledge

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Re: Your mobile data sold, without your knowledge

#131

Post by sizzle »

henriklied wrote: post #85
surround wrote: post #76

The article assumes that the location data must have been collected because he gave an app permission to access his location. I bet they couldn’t figure out which app it was because it wasn’t an app. Cell service providers can and do track your cellphone location. All they have to do is measure the signal strength of your cellphone at different towers, and they can triangulate its position. https://www.vice.com/en_us…

> The article assumes that the location data must have been collected because he gave an app permission to access his location. I bet they couldn’t figure out which app it was because it wasn’t an app. I worked on this story (and the others, we're still publishing [1] [2]). The dataset we bought from Tamoco didn't contain an app name for most of the data. So instead of guessing, we're open about the fact that we don'…

You should search the dataset for government building coordinates to deanonymize politicians and that ought to really be a scandal worthy of legislation against mobile tracking once you air their dirty secrets e.g. suspected infidelity, leisure trips to brothels, etc.

Re: Your mobile data sold, without your knowledge

#133

Post by tinus_hn »

mikorym wrote: post #99
tinus_hn wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kind of triangulation is nowhere near precise enough to reveal the data shown in the article. This is GPS data which the provider does not get. Remember that many people ‘have nothing to hide’ so they turn on services like Google Latitude. Then later they’re al surprised when their data is sold to the highest bidder.

> That kind of triangulation is nowhere near precise enough to reveal the data shown in the article You don't have to speculate, the article does state the method: >> All modern mobile phones have a GPS receiver, which with the help of satellite can track the exact position of the phone with only a few meters distance. >> The position data NRK acquired consisted of a table with four hundred million map coordinates fr…

Do you really propose a manufacturer like Apple is going to grant continuous access to the GPS receiver in their phone to the providers?

Re: Your mobile data sold, without your knowledge

#134

Post by snovv_crash »

steerablesafe wrote: post #88
snovv_crash wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that thinking is correct. What isn't correct is when people think this has some bearing on when the product isn't free.

Most free as in freedom software are free as in beer and are not packed with anti-features.

Most cloud / Android / iOS software which is free as in beer isn't libre. Which is where the consumers are the product.

Re: Your mobile data sold, without your knowledge

#135

Post by tinus_hn »

user5994461 wrote: post #128
tinus_hn wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kind of triangulation is nowhere near precise enough to reveal the data shown in the article. This is GPS data which the provider does not get. Remember that many people ‘have nothing to hide’ so they turn on services like Google Latitude. Then later they’re al surprised when their data is sold to the highest bidder.

>>> That kind of triangulation is nowhere near precise enough to reveal the data shown in the article. Here, have a read at this article on how cell phone operate and how to track them. Wrote that a few years ago. https://thehftguy.com/2017/07/19/what-does-it-really-take-to... And the HN discussion, where developers admit they've been developing that for real for years: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14803443

Your link describes accuracy in an imaginary, optimal case to be ‘can see which block you’re in’.

Sorry, that’s not even close to the data they show in the article, where they can pinpoint the cage someone is watching in a zoo.

Makes sense of course, otherwise, why even have a GPS receiver in the phone?

Re: Your mobile data sold, without your knowledge

#136

Post by tinus_hn »

eitland wrote: post #107
tinus_hn wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kind of triangulation is nowhere near precise enough to reveal the data shown in the article. This is GPS data which the provider does not get. Remember that many people ‘have nothing to hide’ so they turn on services like Google Latitude. Then later they’re al surprised when their data is sold to the highest bidder.

> Remember that many people ‘have nothing to hide’ so they turn on services like Google Latitude. Then later they’re al surprised when their data is sold to the highest bidder. Do you have any proof that Google does exactly this? I don't like Google at all (anymore) but I thought Google was somewhat ok in that they never sold my raw data points even if they would sell accesss to place an ad to "visitors who have been…

The example is to illustrate that people are fine with giving away their data. Google Latitude no longer exists and I don’t think Google sells data like that, they analyse it themselves. But other services do.

Re: Your mobile data sold, without your knowledge

#137

Post by TomMarius »

jacobush wrote: post #116
TomMarius wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed we are, and the gun ownership is not minor as well (every twelfth adult normally carries a weapon).

Interesting twist on that - the EU has gun regulations, but Czechia made a law that every licensed gun owner in Czechia constitutes a part of the national defense. Sweden has a similar thing, where people in the reserve can have a fully automatic submachine gun. But it's limited to people with an explicit reserve status and the proper training, gun safe etc and further limitations, plus in practice it's not common an…

Trust me, if the EU was to interfere with gun ownership here, Czechia would be out the next day. There was a little sign of such thing and a huge protest was planned within days, forcing the politicians to consider protecting gun ownership/carrying in the constitution (not yet done, but still on the table)

Re: Your mobile data sold, without your knowledge

#138

Post by user5994461 »

tinus_hn wrote: post #135
user5994461 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> That kind of triangulation is nowhere near precise enough to reveal the data shown in the article. Here, have a read at this article on how cell phone operate and how to track them. Wrote that a few years ago. https://thehftguy.com/2017/07/19/what-does-it-really-take-to... And the HN discussion, where developers admit they've been developing that for real for years: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14803443

Your link describes accuracy in an imaginary, optimal case to be ‘can see which block you’re in’. Sorry, that’s not even close to the data they show in the article, where they can pinpoint the cage someone is watching in a zoo. Makes sense of course, otherwise, why even have a GPS receiver in the phone?

This describes how mobile communication work, since mobiles appeared in the 1990s. The phone network has to have (at least) block level accuracy on every phone, otherwise it doesn't work.

Of course it can do much better than that (building level is definitely trivial). The previous comments thread on Hacker News has more details, including some explanations on correlating movements of people to trace every individual one came across and the relations they have. Scary stuff.

GPS is more accurate of course (10 meters or less), but it requires the phone to run a spyware application and drains the battery, unlike simply having a phone that's on.

Re: Your mobile data sold, without your knowledge

#139

Post by eitland »

tinus_hn wrote: post #136
eitland wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Remember that many people ‘have nothing to hide’ so they turn on services like Google Latitude. Then later they’re al surprised when their data is sold to the highest bidder. Do you have any proof that Google does exactly this? I don't like Google at all (anymore) but I thought Google was somewhat ok in that they never sold my raw data points even if they would sell accesss to place an ad to "visitors who have been…

The example is to illustrate that people are fine with giving away their data. Google Latitude no longer exists and I don’t think Google sells data like that, they analyse it themselves. But other services do.

1. Fine. But then one shouldn't single out one company that maybe doesn't do this. I was honestly interested in knowing if they were caught red handed but so far no references to that.

2.The function (at least the parts I used) now exists as part of Google maps.

Re: Your mobile data sold, without your knowledge

#140

Post by eitland »

gvb wrote: post #129
eitland wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Remember that many people ‘have nothing to hide’ so they turn on services like Google Latitude. Then later they’re al surprised when their data is sold to the highest bidder. Do you have any proof that Google does exactly this? I don't like Google at all (anymore) but I thought Google was somewhat ok in that they never sold my raw data points even if they would sell accesss to place an ad to "visitors who have been…

Yes. I had it more than once where I purchased an item from a store and, about 10 minutes later, I received a coupon for a discount at the very store I just made the purchase. It happened to my wife as well. After the second time that happened, I disabled location in my phone settings and only enable it if I have a specific need for it. I have not received any "spontaneous" coupons since disabling locations.

Still possible without Google dumping your raw location history, but still interesting.
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