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Fear and beauty: two weeks living with Covid-19

joshuaweissburg.com

131–140 of 232 posts

Re: Fear and beauty: two weeks living with Covid-19

#131

I'm also in CO and had COVID-19 like symptoms about a month ago (fever and GI issues without any other major symptoms for a week progressing into a dry cough/heavy breathing -- completely unlike any other flu I've had). I never got tested due to lack of test kits here in CO at the time and because my symptoms stayed manageable I never saw a health care provider beyond a virtual meeting to get a rescue inhaler. At the…

Have you seen any theories floating around that it had already spread in some places like the following? https://www.ksbw.com/article/new-study-investigates-californ... I’m in SF but having a hard deciphering the plausibility vs the timing and effectiveness of sheltering-in-place vs it just being a rationalization. Anything similar stories out there for CO?

I have seen those theories that it has already spread and that is why there aren't the cases now, but I find it difficult to believe from the following reasoning:

1. California has ~40 million people

2. Herd immunity would start at what ~30 million cases?

3. Elsewhere in the world, it seems that there is a ~1% infection fatality rate

So how did California get herd immunity without ~300,000 people who died of pneumonia from an unknown cause piling up in the corridors in a couple of months? I read elsewhere that fatality rate of people on ventilators is about 50%. Assuming that the Californian cohort were treated properly means there would have been ~600,000 people in critical condition and only half of them died. There will be more who went to hospital but weren't considered critical enough for ventilation. Its a rough guestimate but lets say twice as many "non-critical but hospitalized" as "hospitalized and critical" so there were ~1 million people queuing in the hospitals. These figures are pulled out of the air and can be adjusted, but it doesn't really help with the sheer numbers, for example there are ~7000 ICU beds in California, so the 300,000 who might have got better with care wouldn't have had access to it.

It seems obvious that to get to the immunity, you have to go through the eye of a needle.. The basic premise of theories like this seems to be that the fatality rate may be actually negligible and therefore that the whole issue has been overblown. But I have seen video from Wuhan and from Italy and New York that shows images of body bags piled in the corridors. That is not normal and it would surely have been remarked on in California or at the time. Don't forget that Wuhan had ~3000 deaths. Furthermore, California is not an island and for it to have been widespread there that long ago means it would have had to be widespread across the whole USA if not the entire world.

It is tempting I think to believe that cannot be affected by and obviously, extrapolating from the fact that it never happened before, would be entirely correct. Unfortunately history is littered with people who chose to just live their lives like that until the came along and wiped them out without blinking. All of us here are the descendants of the lucky ones!

Re: Fear and beauty: two weeks living with Covid-19

#132
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amphetamine salts are apparently used to treat ADHD. Some people use them illegally to concentrate for mid terms and finals at college or similar. I'm not personally aware of any valid reason to think they are appropriate for covid19. There is a study that shows in vitro, it helps fight the flu: https://covid19data.com/2020/03/06/meth-may-fight-flu-virus-... There are also many reports from meth users that they alm…

Huh, interesting. I wonder if ADHD amphetamine users get sick less often than others. It's just a personal anecodte, but whenever I get sick, I take amphetamine salts. It absolutely lets me power through the day and relieves symptoms (mostly stuffy nose), but I don't know if it's sustainable for something as long lasting as c19.

Ephedrine is a key ingredient of many cold and flu drugs, or was until the War on Drugs caused it to be banned for being an amphetamine precursor. I wonder if any amphetamine metabolites have similar effects to ephedrine?

Re: Fear and beauty: two weeks living with Covid-19

#133

Great write up on the nature of fear! It's amazing how much the mind can fight to deny the reality of the situation you're in during such episodes. The dull chest pain sticks around for a surprisingly long amount of time. I'm at day 25 now since my ER visit and just noticed that I haven't felt any of that dull pressure in at least 2 or 3 days at this point.

What exactly is this dull chest pain? I've had symptoms of lower chest and back-pain more than a month ago, with a strange feeling of not being able to get sufficient air through my nose as well as seemingly high blood-pressure and heart racing in late afternoons. This all lasted just short of a week, but took a couple of weeks in total until I could say it was gone, with a persistent minor dry cough. No idea if it was Covid but the symptoms sound strangely familiar with what other people experience elsewhere in my community. Could be panic attacks as well, obviously, but it felt strange.

Re: Fear and beauty: two weeks living with Covid-19

#134
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen any theories floating around that it had already spread in some places like the following? https://www.ksbw.com/article/new-study-investigates-californ... I’m in SF but having a hard deciphering the plausibility vs the timing and effectiveness of sheltering-in-place vs it just being a rationalization. Anything similar stories out there for CO?

I have seen those theories that it has already spread and that is why there aren't the cases now, but I find it difficult to believe from the following reasoning: 1. California has ~40 million people 2. Herd immunity would start at what ~30 million cases? 3. Elsewhere in the world, it seems that there is a ~1% infection fatality rate So how did California get herd immunity without ~300,000 people who died of pneumoni…

Iceland and a couple European countries did some sample testing studies where they tested a random sample of the population(1-2 %) to see how many people have coronavirus antibodies. Even in Italy in the most affected regions this was only about 10%, on Iceland it was about 1%.

So it's really unlikely large amount of the population anywhere has already had the coronavirus and might be immune without anyone noticing (without you know, all the totally overloaded hospitals and lots of people suddenly dying).

Re: Fear and beauty: two weeks living with Covid-19

#135
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden didn't take no measures. Sweden took flexible measures[1]. Social distancing, allowing anyone who felt sick to stay home, encouraging people to work from home (and 50% Swedes apparently can do that[2]). The problem is that when American employers grant to no sick leave to employees and are brutally against ever doing so, applying the flexible Swedish model to the US would be extremely hard. The model involves…

All I know is that the streets are just as crowded, people are still going out and businesses are still open. There are plenty of news reports showing that. There is no known method of stopping the spread of this disease. Even if you flatten the curve, without a vaccine, the area under the curve remains the same.

The area under the infection curve does, but not the area under the death curve. The entire point of flattening the curve is to avoid doctors having to ration care due to overwhelming demand.

Fwiw, I'm also in the camp that cases are an order of magnitude off and there is significantly more immunity in the population than we think. However that's a hunch and with out widespread antibody testing it would be irresponsible for anyone to act on such a hunch.

Re: Fear and beauty: two weeks living with Covid-19

#136

Great write up on the nature of fear! It's amazing how much the mind can fight to deny the reality of the situation you're in during such episodes. The dull chest pain sticks around for a surprisingly long amount of time. I'm at day 25 now since my ER visit and just noticed that I haven't felt any of that dull pressure in at least 2 or 3 days at this point.

What exactly is this dull chest pain? I've had symptoms of lower chest and back-pain more than a month ago, with a strange feeling of not being able to get sufficient air through my nose as well as seemingly high blood-pressure and heart racing in late afternoons. This all lasted just short of a week, but took a couple of weeks in total until I could say it was gone, with a persistent minor dry cough. No idea if it w…

I experienced the same. I even did gym at home with good performance but i felt weird sensation on my chest. I don't want to think i had covid, but so many people had it that I am surprised i don't.

Re: Fear and beauty: two weeks living with Covid-19

#137

So he claims that he got it despite practicing all the social distancing protocols, hand-washing, etc. Has anyone calculated what are the probabilities of infection in an area with an active infection cluster while practicing social-distancing and other hygiene measures?

My understanding was the social distancing won't actually prevent everyone from getting covid19, it'll just slow it down so that we don't all get it at once. Most people will end up with it.

So given that, I'd say the changes are nearly 0%.

To actually keep infections to a minimum, we need to actually quarantine, but (again, my understanding) that will have too many other negative effects, and the economic hardships could actually kill more people than the disease would have.

Re: Fear and beauty: two weeks living with Covid-19

#138

I think there's an interesting conversation to be had about the psychological nature of this pandemic. The author of the article is 39 years old, I'm quite surprised by the severity of the experience that he reports. There was a similar article in the NYT recently by a woman whose husband contracted COVID, had a relatively 'normal' pneumonia, but the article read like a war report out of an Ebola zone, allusions to C…

I'm in my 40s and haven't had to deal with any really crazy situations like this. It isn't just that there's a possibility that 1 person I love could die from this, there's a possibly that any of them could. And the older they are, the more likely that they could die from it.

On top of that, I can't spend time with them in the way that I would if I knew they were at risk. I have to stay away from them instead. It's the opposite of what I'd do if I knew a loved one was dying.

I think I'm dealing with it better than most because I'm an introvert. But I watch other people around me being affected by this, and I can understand it. It's a lot of new, different stress all at once.

Re: Fear and beauty: two weeks living with Covid-19

#139
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are those medicines actually advisable for covid?

I'm failing to find a list of recommended OTC drugs for covid19. All I'm finding is a generic statement that OTC drugs may help with symptom management. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/ca... Ventolin is an inhaler. It opens up the airways during asthma attacks or similar. Pseudoephedrine is a decongestant. The article under discussion indicates the author was given an inhaler and cough medic…

For what it's worth, amphetamines work as a decongestant as well. I'm not sure I'd say it's a good choice, but it is a choice.

Re: Fear and beauty: two weeks living with Covid-19

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm failing to find a list of recommended OTC drugs for covid19. All I'm finding is a generic statement that OTC drugs may help with symptom management. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/ca... Ventolin is an inhaler. It opens up the airways during asthma attacks or similar. Pseudoephedrine is a decongestant. The article under discussion indicates the author was given an inhaler and cough medic…

For what it's worth, amphetamines work as a decongestant as well. I'm not sure I'd say it's a good choice, but it is a choice.

Amphetamines are also known as speed and, among other things, they raise your heart rate. Coronavirus is apparently also raising the heart rate and doing damage to the heart for some people.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/news/20170210/...

I would guess this is probably not something you want to take if Coronavirus is already elevating your heart rate.

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