Redux – Not Dead Yet (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: Redux – Not Dead Yet (2018)

#131

Post by acemarke » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:14 PM UTC

runawaybottle wrote: post #130

rendall wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an odd dynamic that happens in tech: A framework or approach exists for a specific purpose; that framework is used badly or inappropriately by devs who don't fully understand it; those same devs spread the idea that said framework is bad/difficult/insecure and people who use it just don't know what they're doing; some of those devs happen to be "thought leaders" and use their platform to broadcast their misu…

So it’s difficult to parse what your observation is providing insight into. So let’s see how this blame game works, because I have a hunch you want to aim it at people that think Redux is a bad choice. You are suggesting that people that really don’t like Redux actually don’t know how to use it properly, misuse it, go down that rabbit hole and come out completely jaded by it. They then go on to provide their feedback…

I'll point out that the Redux team (first Dan Abramov and Andrew Clark, now myself and Tim Dorr) never tried to market Redux as something you _must_ use, and in fact have had to actively spend lots of time telling people to _not_ use it all the time. (Probably one of the only tools in existence where the maintainers have spent more time _discouraging_ its use than _encouraging it, which is a state of affairs that frustrates me to no end.) We've continually tried to provide guidance in the docs as to when it _does_ make sense to use it.

But, as I noted just above this comment: we don't control the rest of the developer ecosystem. All we control is the official docs, and our own blogs and social media comments.

I also want to emphasize that we _haven't_ dismissed people's feedback as "you don't know what you're doing", and in fact have tried to take that feedback into account with our docs and the creation of Redux Toolkit, to guide people in the right direction as they use Redux.

Re: Redux – Not Dead Yet (2018)

#132

Post by runawaybottle » Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 5:11 AM UTC

gunn wrote: post #53

warp wrote: post #3

I've recently tried using Redux for a side-project. While it solves the problem (organizing state), I feel there is too much boilerplate for my small project. Are there any popular alternatives which don't use reducers? EDIT: thanks for all the responses, I'll check them out :)

Try mine! https://github.com/gunn/pure-store Super simple, 100% test coverage, 100% typesafe if using typescript, absolutely no boilerplate.

Edit: Just checked out the code. This really looks like an event emitter with Immer. Is that fair to say? I totally dig the simplicity of it.

Re: Redux – Not Dead Yet (2018)

#133

Post by rendall » Wed, Apr 15, 2020, 8:24 AM UTC

runawaybottle wrote: post #130

rendall wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an odd dynamic that happens in tech: A framework or approach exists for a specific purpose; that framework is used badly or inappropriately by devs who don't fully understand it; those same devs spread the idea that said framework is bad/difficult/insecure and people who use it just don't know what they're doing; some of those devs happen to be "thought leaders" and use their platform to broadcast their misu…

So it’s difficult to parse what your observation is providing insight into. So let’s see how this blame game works, because I have a hunch you want to aim it at people that think Redux is a bad choice. You are suggesting that people that really don’t like Redux actually don’t know how to use it properly, misuse it, go down that rabbit hole and come out completely jaded by it. They then go on to provide their feedback…

@runawaybottle, with sincere respect, you projected a lot of meaning into what I wrote: "You are suggesting that people that really don’t like Redux actually don’t know how to use it properly, misuse it, go down that rabbit hole and come out completely jaded by it."

Nope. Neither implied nor intended.

The article is a reasonable reaction by a redux maintainer to the dynamic I describe. "I don't like using Redux" is a totally valid opinion. "Redux is terrible" is, frankly, not a valid opinion. Neither is it valid for CSS, javascript, React, Vue, Pascal, COBOL nor what-have-you, and yet here we are yet again, letting fickle winds of fashion and facile opinion dictate what should be engineering decisions.

Use redux if your use case applies. Don't use redux if it doesn't. If you find it unwieldy, dont use it. I wish the tech community could leave it there, but they don't.