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Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

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Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#131

Post by bvandewalle »

tazjin wrote: post #86
softwaredoug wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew I would get downvoted. But folks seriously don’t remember the pain before Zoom. And the current pain anytime we have to use a GoToMeeting, Google Meet, Webex or other tool that barely functions. Human interaction that actually works right now is so important. And I simply have a hard time trusting another product to actually do the call reliably

Google Meet is the only one of these that has always worked reliably for me. Doesn't require any strange clients, works in most browsers, never randomly fails to move just some person's audio and so on. Disclaimer: I work for Alphabet, but already held this opinion before I did.

We use Google Meet and it struggles to keep up with meetings with more than 10 people. It seems that the common hack is to ask each attendee to disable their camera. On the plus side, it is the only one that reliably works from a browser only.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#132

Post by dragonwriter »

mulmen wrote: post #38
kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Googlers don't use Zoom for company work. It was banned as in it can no longer be installed on corp laptops.

Right but it's also astonishing that was allowed before. If it's not needed for work why would it be installed? Why would any non-work software be allowed on corp laptops?

Because unlike most large workplaces that inhibit innovation and productivity and infantilize staff with an “anything not specifically permitted is prohibited” rule which also creates continuous work for a review and approval bureaucracy and guarantees that toolsets are outdated and improvements difficult to discover, Google apparently has an “everything not specifically prohibited is allowed” policy.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#133

Post by donjoe »

orblivion wrote: post #82
elcomet wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jitsi is the worst in my experience, particularly with many people (ie more than two or three).

My experience: On one computer it froze Firefox. On another computer it crashed Firefox. On my phone (Jitsi Meet via F-Droid): I once had a big meeting where it seemed like only call-in users could hear me, another time during a rather large meeting the application crashed, and recently I had a successful conference with 4 people. The phone application had a few updates between the failures and the success, so perhap…

Firefox seems to be missing some features (such as RTX support) which makes it hard for jitsi devs to get it up and running. They seem to have gotten close though: https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet/issues/4758#issuecomment...

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#134

Post by prepend »

tazjin wrote: post #86
softwaredoug wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew I would get downvoted. But folks seriously don’t remember the pain before Zoom. And the current pain anytime we have to use a GoToMeeting, Google Meet, Webex or other tool that barely functions. Human interaction that actually works right now is so important. And I simply have a hard time trusting another product to actually do the call reliably

Google Meet is the only one of these that has always worked reliably for me. Doesn't require any strange clients, works in most browsers, never randomly fails to move just some person's audio and so on. Disclaimer: I work for Alphabet, but already held this opinion before I did.

I gave up on Google Meet/Hangouts/Whatever. When chatting with Googlers, it is really nice. But their products available to me as a non-Google employee suck and change quite a bit. Just trying to debut issues with participants was frustrating it it would vary based on how they clicked the link, what they had running, etc.

I wish Google would just provide the internal tool and sell that. It’s the opposite of dogfooding their product. They eat the good stuff and product a lesser product to their customers.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#135

Post by vkou »

chvid wrote: post #55

Is there any technical merit to this ban? Why would forcing use of web version mitigate any concerns? (The concerns I have heard are lack of proper end-to-end encryption, servers in China and the possibility to join chatrooms by guessing a name (zoom-bombing)).

> Is there any technical merit to this ban?

Installing third-party software on corp devices is generally a no-go at a lot of workplaces. With the security problems that Zoom has been having, it's only prudent of IT to ban its use on work devices.

> Why would forcing use of web version mitigate any concerns?

Because the web version runs in a browser sandbox, so there's a reduced risk of it compromising the security of the corp device.

> The concerns I have heard are lack of proper end-to-end encryption, servers in China and the possibility to join chatrooms by guessing a name (zoom-bombing)).

Googlers don't use Zoom for work, they use it for personal stuff, so that's not the problem.

From the perspective of a generic IT department: Even if there aren't any security problems with having the client installed on your workstation - the problem is that when they've made so many amateurish security mistakes, it's difficult for IT to trust the binary blob that Zoom wants you to install on your computer.

Corporate device security is a series of safety-versus-efficiency tradeoffs, made with incomplete information. Banning Zoom does not really compromise efficiency, if you aren't using it for work stuff.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#136

Post by JumpCrisscross »

bvandewalle wrote: post #121
NikolaNovak wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fascinating to see people's experiences. I've been using WebEx in enterprise/corporate environment for couple of years intensively, and it "just works". I can download desktop client, but I can also just run it on browser. Zoom always wants to install weird clients that violate policies and cause my corporate laptops to refuse or bork. I recognize my experience may be a minority one, but I'm surprised, genuinely…

The issue is that WebEx might just work for you, but if there is one person for whom it doesn't work then that is the limiting factor. What people struggle to understand is that Zoom made it easy accross ALL operating systems. While Webex might "just work" on a subset of Windows and Mac hosts. I use Linux as my day to day OS and WebEx is a nightmare (which sticks well to the stereotypical enterprise tool from Cisco).

> Zoom made it easy accross ALL operating systems

Many solutions don't require a local software. That's an onboarding hurdle. Zoom's dial-in system also requires host approval, which lead to mayhem across every Zoom call I've been forced to join today. Most importantly, someone inviting me to a Zoom call says something about how they value security.

Zoom's audio quality is better. But it's not irreplaceably better. In terms of UX and reliability, it's been a mixed bag. In terms of security and branding, it's awful.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#137

Post by magicsmoke »

kryogen1c wrote: post #120
lanevorockz wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is the thing that all Zoom keys are kept and maintained in China. I wonder if this is not the main concern.

got a source for that claim? I work in IT and we use zoom and I have never read that in any article. not that we save anything from zoom that I need to be concerned about key storage for, but concerning nonetheless.

https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/move-fast-roll-your-own-crypto...

"The AES-128 keys, which we verified are sufficient to decrypt Zoom packets intercepted in Internet traffic, appear to be generated by Zoom servers, and in some cases, are delivered to participants in a Zoom meeting through servers in China, even when all meeting participants, and the Zoom subscriber’s company, are outside of China."

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#138

Post by gonehome »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #100
softwaredoug wrote: post #30

God please don't make me use a non-zoom video conferencing tool! I have used about a dozen over the years in my role as a consultant, and Zoom has been by far the most reliable. I’m hopeful lots of good can come from the scrutiny, but please Zoom get your act together so I don’t have to use some other buggy thing that doesn’t actually work.

It's fascinating to see people's experiences. I've been using WebEx in enterprise/corporate environment for couple of years intensively, and it "just works". I can download desktop client, but I can also just run it on browser. Zoom always wants to install weird clients that violate policies and cause my corporate laptops to refuse or bork. I recognize my experience may be a minority one, but I'm surprised, genuinely…

The Zoom client works really well, Webex works okay for me most of the time but not all the time and has a lot of little problems I find annoying.

- Overall webex UI is very slow/laggy, subjective - yes, but I think it'd be obvious to any regular person.

- It makes my self-view a tiny floating box (this drives me crazy, I want it to be the same size as the others).

- Gallery view doesn't work well, sometimes the speaker is duplicated in sharing content speaker view and again in gallery view.

- Audio switching doesn't work as well between putting airpods on and off.

- More video/audio failures than Zoom in general (enough to be annoying).

I'm not sure why Zoom is the only one that does Gallery view right - the others all seem to mess this interface up (maybe because they can't handle the traffic?)

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#139

Post by abhiyerra »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #101
tazjin wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Meet is the only one of these that has always worked reliably for me. Doesn't require any strange clients, works in most browsers, never randomly fails to move just some person's audio and so on. Disclaimer: I work for Alphabet, but already held this opinion before I did.

> worked reliably for me Every second time I’m using it, I either don’t hear the other people, or people do not hear me. YMMV.

I just had a Google Meet call. They couldn't hear me. Zoom has its issues but it is definitely reliable for its purpose.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#140

Post by eagsalazar2 »

softwaredoug wrote: post #44
softwaredoug wrote: post #30

God please don't make me use a non-zoom video conferencing tool! I have used about a dozen over the years in my role as a consultant, and Zoom has been by far the most reliable. I’m hopeful lots of good can come from the scrutiny, but please Zoom get your act together so I don’t have to use some other buggy thing that doesn’t actually work.

I knew I would get downvoted. But folks seriously don’t remember the pain before Zoom. And the current pain anytime we have to use a GoToMeeting, Google Meet, Webex or other tool that barely functions. Human interaction that actually works right now is so important. And I simply have a hard time trusting another product to actually do the call reliably

100% agree but I'm tentatively hopeful that alternatives to Zoom have caught up. Zoom raised the bar and I have seen that other products have improved. Meet is decent right now and Jitsi (in my very limited testing so far) seem actually pretty great, possibly better than Zoom (they mix audio more smoothly when two people are talking over each other in a way that is less jarring, not sure but that's my current theory of why it "feels" better). Even historically awful alternatives like Webex really are honestly improved. Anyway, Zoom is getting outed as being a seriously a-hole company - there are definitely alternatives better than selling out just for convenience of not switching or even trying to find an alternative.
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