Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society • Hacker News Board

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#131

Post by pojntfx » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 2:56 PM UTC

ohnope wrote: post #71

pojntfx wrote: post #54

As someone who identified as a minimalist until a while back, I’d argue that the primary lesson I’ve learned from it is not necessary to thrive for the minimal possible amount of items, but to _keep track_ of the things you own. I do for example have a list of all my personal belongings and update that list _before_ I ever buy something; this way you get the same benefit of “feeling in control” without having any det…

I’ve wanted to create a list of my belongings, with maybe a few other metrics like category, rough value, happiness factor, etc. How detailed did you go, and did you use it as a survey tool to initially figure out what you don’t need?

I don't even categorize what I own; my list is a simple .txt with newlines between "categories", but I don't even name the latter anymore. I've done a lot more (cost, categories etc.) but nowadays I just ... keep it minimal ;)

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#132

Post by KozmoNau7 » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 3:04 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #118

Everyone here is commenting on minimalism as a lifestyle, but the article seems to be referring to aesthetic minimalism. The two are not necessarily the same. Also, for people to conclude that minimalism in the lifestyle sense isn't working in some way is pretty bizarre. What exactly is the answer, then? Just giving in to the human impulses of hoarding and consumerism? Whether or not that's the alternative, this conc…

When you're brought up in a consumerist lifestyle and taught again and again that consumerism is good and that you should aspire to consume more and produce more so you can consume even more, it can be hard to break the habit.

Buying a bigger TV than your neighbor gives you a dopamine boost, you feel like you've achieved something, you're moving up in life. It's addictive.

And the industry wants us to consume. The plastic industry pumped recycling initiatives to make it seem like plastic could be harmlessly recycled. They want us to think we can use as much plastic as we like, they don't want us to reduce our use of plastic.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#133

Post by kmarc » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 3:20 PM UTC

Interesting to read these comments here.

I consider myself a (not-so-hardcore) minimalist, even since before this hip KonMari... "thing" that suddenly "made" a lot of people into minimalists. Yeah, for sure it did.

As everything, this is a journey, yada-yada. However, what I think is worth pointing out is that different cultural settings would adapt "minimalism" (whatever that exactly is) differently. Living in an European city, I absolutely don't need to have a car. Having this mindset in Texas would be absolutely impractical.

My journey in this led me to just asses myself and introspect; consider if certain objects would make me happy, my life easier, do I really need it, can I rather borrow it, etc. The thing what I used to call minimalism became to me just "common sense" - although apparently is not common at all (thinking of people renting storage spaces etc...)

But what really, really helped me (also mentally) is the reduced distraction that objects, services, etc caused me; I see other people handling this complex world much better than I, but I made peace with the fact that the current level of complexity of our world is not comprehensible, form an evolutionary perspective, to the human (or maybe just my) brain :-)

Anyhow, this article was painfully boring, however, the HN comments are worth to read!

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#134

Post by dgreensp » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 3:22 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #85

closeparen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your possessions all have practical utility, you are already a hardcore minimalist. No one should begrudge you a well-stocked and well-used workshop. That’s not what the minimalist message is supposed to be about. It’s the stuff accumulated carelessly, just because you could. Decorative doo-dads, outfits worn once, toys from kids long since grown, furniture retained out of a sense of duty. The suburban middle-clas…

>If your possessions all have practical utility, you are already a hardcore minimalist. The problem is that "practical utility" isn't always obvious. I have boxes and boxes of components and other oddments that collectively form a useful library, but I have no way of predicting which specific oddments will be useful in future. Any given item is currently useless, but might become extremely useful at some indeterminab…

This is why Marie Kondo’s approach is personal and about getting in touch with your feelings. No one is going to deny you your collection. One of my pet peeves is when someone is trying to help you get rid of “stuff you don’t use,” and they pick up an object and say, “When’s the last time you used this? I’ve never seen you use this.” You’re allowed to have things you don’t use very often, if they are the sort of things you want to have around. Yet, this permission doesn’t necessarily prevent getting rid of tons of stuff.

One thing I’ve noticed is that if I can’t find something, its utility is basically zero. If I forget I have it, even more so. Also, things cluttering up a room (visually and in terms of physical space) feel like clutter. So, ideally a collection would be organized enough (which could mean stuff is just piled in boxes, but I’m sufficiently familiar with the boxes), and stored in a suitable place.

I think there’s a lot of power in encouraging people to get rid of stuff that they actually would be happier if they got rid of, by helping them make their own authentic determination.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#135

Post by dgreensp » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 3:29 PM UTC

KonMari has nothing to do with visual brand, it’s about living authentically free of things you don’t like.

It’s like the life philosophy of not spending time around friends who don’t spark joy in you. And then someone comes along and says, “I see, it’s about spending less time around people, in order to look cool!” No, that’s just your shallow, ego-based take on it. “Not mine, that’s totally what people are doing. I can tell they think they’re cooler than me, going on about how much they enjoy their ‘me’ time... It’s just another fad, of course.”

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#136

Post by grandridge » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 3:31 PM UTC

An article about minimalism with too many words

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#137

Post by cheerlessbog » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 3:39 PM UTC

Coming to the US from Europe, I find it striking how much more “Stuff” a typical household contains. I am still struggling to understand why and even after a number of years, it is jarring when I return. I think it is a mixture of greater disposable income, lower prices, peer pressure (“look at my new toy”), extra storage space, ease of shopping (easier to drive and park), and a slightly different set of decisions about what is important.

Back home, I would have a keener awareness of the opportunity cost, including “where am I going to put this”. My family back home seems more homey as with fewer possessions their homes feel more harmonious.

Of course I am sampling large distributions...

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#138

Post by monadic2 » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 3:50 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #51

DubiousPusher wrote: post #4

Two ideas which often I encounter together yet I have grown to find incompatible are self reliance and minimalism. If you wish to become more self reliant i.e. more able to handle for yourself rather than through another's labor the impositions you create in the world, you will find yourself needing to masters, access and eventual own many more tools and material. My father, a man capable of building or repairing alm…

If your possessions all have practical utility, you are already a hardcore minimalist. No one should begrudge you a well-stocked and well-used workshop. That’s not what the minimalist message is supposed to be about. It’s the stuff accumulated carelessly, just because you could. Decorative doo-dads, outfits worn once, toys from kids long since grown, furniture retained out of a sense of duty. The suburban middle-clas…

> If your possessions all have practical utility,

This seems tautological or uselessly subjective. What is a possession without practical value? You seem to have talked yourself out of seeing the value in possessions you own. Perhaps you are simply anxious.

How this attitude began to be associated with the minimalist design movement I have no clue.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#139

Post by scbrg » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 4:00 PM UTC

ses1984 wrote: post #107

dageshi wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No... You order takeaway. Or you buy ready meals from the store. Or you go to subway. There's plenty of alternatives to actually cooking.

Yeah, it's funny, ordering takeaway all the time is also one of the plenty of alternatives to lighting money on fire.

So, I eat out and order takeaway a lot. The average cost for this is roughly $8-$14. I could cook, I suppose, spending an hour or two every day, and cut that cost to.. $3-$5? But just for the heck of it, say I save the whole damn cost, because I grow my own rice on the windowsill or whatever.

So, by spending an hour every day (excluding going to the store to buy ingredients, which we all know takes no time, or browsing the specialist windowsill rice growing forums, which of course also take no time) I can save $10, give or take. If I work that hour, I will make, well, it doesn't matter, but it's more than $10. So, every time I order takeaway, I save money.

I know this reasoning may not apply to everyone, but saying that it's like "lighting money on fire" is quite simplistic.

(My local currency is not $, but whatever)

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#140

Post by golemotron » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 4:00 PM UTC

The article is a very provincial US take. It makes no acknowledgement of Scandinavian or Eastern (see 'ma' in Japanese) conceptions of minimalism in lifestyle and aesthetics. Africa and India are likewise excluded.

That's very convenient if you are going to weave a narrative of privilege in a US-centric context, and I think that was the writer's aim.