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Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

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Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#131

Post by sundvor »

joshu wrote: post #116
sundvor wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a dual motion platform ( https://www.nextlevelracing.com/motion-platforms/ ) on an 8020 rig ( https://sim-lab.eu/product/p1-x-sim-racing-chassis/ ) with a direct drive wheel ( https://fanatec.com/au-en/racing-wheels-wheel-bases/racing-w... ) and loadcell pedals (same site) , perhaps with added wind simulator (fan reacting to in game speed), you'll be getting a lot closer. This with a high end PC and tripl…

These are too low-end. The first simulator I used that you could actually feel the car correctly was ~ 100k euros...

Yet properly tuned in 2020 it can get incredibly good for the money paid. Check Barry's channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT_50ZiRFWSm7oziV1OZloQ , he's done some amazing work with his content.

The last 5% will cost 95% of the money, as with anything.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#132

Post by sundvor »

xeromal wrote: post #122
sundvor wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a dual motion platform ( https://www.nextlevelracing.com/motion-platforms/ ) on an 8020 rig ( https://sim-lab.eu/product/p1-x-sim-racing-chassis/ ) with a direct drive wheel ( https://fanatec.com/au-en/racing-wheels-wheel-bases/racing-w... ) and loadcell pedals (same site) , perhaps with added wind simulator (fan reacting to in game speed), you'll be getting a lot closer. This with a high end PC and tripl…

Real drivers face death and that's something simulations will never give you. You make balsier moves when you don't think you'll fly into a wall.

The safety rating system in iRacing makes the stakes feel very different to just loading up Mario Kart. You play with your real name, and safe driving is rewarded - to get A rated you have to treat other drivers with respect.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#133

Post by handedness »

agoodthrowaway wrote: post #97
handedness wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: as someone who's also raced both to a sufficient degree to know (from well before GPL to rFactor and iRacing in terms of simulators, and in KT100, Super Comp and other real-world categories), the skills are far more transferable than you're indicating. There's still a big difference between the two, but "almost nothing in common" is not an accurate description. And there's a reason the top guys on eithe…

Not raced cars but raced motorcycles and the very real difference is the vast sensory overload when you’re approaching corners, while in traffic, late braking trying to overtake, trying to stay in the power, being in the right gear, while protecting. By the way all of this is on the edge of your ability, you walk a line crossing back and forth between triumph and catastrophe. The heat is a very real thing and really…

Interesting, as I'm on the opposite end of that one. I've never found sensory overload to be a significant issue in anything I've flown/driven/ridden/raced (including motorcycles). The fastest stuff has required a session or three for my brain to come to grips with the rate of sensory input and get fully on top of it, but after that it's never been an issue and it normalizes to no longer being stimulating just for the sake of the thrill of speed. (Which isn't to say there isn't something fast enough to saturate my brain's ability to process my sensory inputs.) Rather, it's the competition and pursuit of excellence that keeps it interesting.

What I will say is that maintaining full situational awareness and keeping my racecraft sharp is more difficult in a sim, because the quantity and quality of the inputs just aren't as good as the real world.

Sims obviously aren't nearly as physically demanding (though a full-length grand prix will still leave me in a sweat by the end from concentration), but I find I have significantly more mental overhead in the real world as it's far more intuitive. And if the physical risk is a persistent stressor that takes attentional overhead while racing, then congrats, you're wired like a functioning human, not a racing driver!

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#134

Post by handedness »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #24
W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

To me, the interesting question is not whether the experience is the same for the driver, because obviously it cannot be. What's interesting is whether the skills transfer. I would assume they do to some degree, but there are probably bits you can't learn except by doing. The reason why the question is interesting is because I love the notion that you can train in a less expensive context and then perform in a higher…

A flight simulator with a good instructor is a great way to build familiarity with systems and processes without the Hobbs meter running.

A flight simulator without a good instructor is a great way to learn dangerous fundamental habits you'll spend many dollars in an airplane to correct. (Ask me how I know.) Some people can never fully correct those habits.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#135

Post by joshu »

sundvor wrote: post #131
joshu wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are too low-end. The first simulator I used that you could actually feel the car correctly was ~ 100k euros...

Yet properly tuned in 2020 it can get incredibly good for the money paid. Check Barry's channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT_50ZiRFWSm7oziV1OZloQ , he's done some amazing work with his content. The last 5% will cost 95% of the money, as with anything.

I've driven fairly high end rigs (higher than the linked one) and found them very difficult to drive compared to the actual car and actual track. If you want to play around or aren't trying to learn a competitive edge, I'm sure these are great though.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#136

Post by alasdair_ »

W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

I am surprised they don’t yet have a good “drone” car circuit with F1+ speeds on a physical car, with the driver in a simulator.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#137

Post by oarsinsync »

creyes wrote: post #77
Swizec wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue isn’t so much that skills aren’t transferable — they are. F1 drivers even practice with sims. The question is whether you can keep that level of focus and consistency for 2 hours of a real race under all that physical strain. And most people just can’t. That’s what’s impressive about real racers, doing all this stuff at 6 lateral G. They really are like fighter pilots.

It's a risk thing too, i don't think it's just physical exertion. F1 drivers could literally die if they make a mistake. Not so much a problem in a sim

This is a good thing, as it allows you to learn where the limits are without dying, and discover that there is more that you can do without having to risk significant pain to find out. Breaking the mental barrier to discover the true limits is important.

A personal anecdote, my bouldering skills (no rope technical rock climbing) improved tremendously once I started top-roping (climbing much higher walls with a safety rope), as the rope gave me the confidence to try moves I never would have without the safety rope.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#138

Post by jpatte »

After reading the article I'm not entirely sure all these drivers did participate in the race using their own setups while staying home. Especially after this part: "[Pike] and Majors tried to fill up a field that reflected this big tent, letting in fellow NASCAR crew members, as well as some public relations and social media specialists."

Can someone please tell me they did not turn a strong recommendation to avoid public events (which lead to the competition being cancelled) into an opportunity to gather tens of people at one place?

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#139

Post by leereeves »

jpatte wrote: post #138

After reading the article I'm not entirely sure all these drivers did participate in the race using their own setups while staying home. Especially after this part: "[Pike] and Majors tried to fill up a field that reflected this big tent, letting in fellow NASCAR crew members, as well as some public relations and social media specialists." Can someone please tell me they did not turn a strong recommendation to avoid…

Metaphorically, "field" means the group of people competing, and "big tent" means an inclusive group. So there's a natural interpretation that doesn't mean they all gathered in one place.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#140

Post by AmericanChopper »

netsharc wrote: post #70
AmericanChopper wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamilton’s done a few exhibition sim races, and generally does very well in them. The skills translate much better from track to sim than they do the other way around. If you watch the break and throttle pressure on these streams, it’s obvious that the professional racers are much better. They do things like trail breaking, and managing engine power a lot more competently and consistently than the sim enthusiasts. I’…

I follow Kimi on Instagram and he's posted a story where he's at home sitting in a simulator, with his son on his lap. (Kimi was doing throttle and brake, and gear changes, while his son was turning the wheel.) So he does own one for playing.

I just checked this on google, and it turns out he did at least some sim training/testing with Ferrari. I just remember a lot of the interviews/press conferences where he talks about how much he hates them. Not sure if they can still manage to get him in one at work though.

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/187198/1/kimi-learns-nothing-u...

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