Earlier quoted context omitted.
Somewhat related: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1239675564199481347.html >The President said today that governors should try to get things like respirators and masks on their own. The problem with that approach is that suppliers will have to emergently engage w 50 different state purchasers who would in effect be competing for supply. 8/x >Instead, the US fed gov should be central buyer and partner to this indus…
The US fed gov just tried to buy an early vaccine candidate “on unprecedented scale”. I’m not sure that they will do the same when shit hits the ventilators.
Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator
131–140 of 148 posts
Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
> For those of us outside the US/EU, can someone explain about the change in tone here on HN ? HN is being HN, for better or worse. First skepticism, then shallow takes, then acknowledgement and analysis, now frenzied problem solving. > a ventilator was just one component in the ICU ecosystem. Yes, the ventilator is a CPAP machine on steriods. The Respiratory Therapist, Intensivist and Critical Care Nursing staff are…
>It's not uncommon for one or more of these to have multiple touches per hour for evaluation and adjustment of the parameters Maybe a stupid question, but why can't this be automated?
It's called the "practice of medicine" for a reason. You can do everything "right" by the book and still have things go wrong. There is no substitute for eyes on the patient. Ever.
Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
Understatement of the year, it's probably more dangerous to use these at home than just using simple oxygen and someone to help you remember to breathe for a few days. If you're to the point that you need a ventilator for covid-19, you're also going to need a ton of meds and attention from trained medical staff. I could see a CPAP machine being useful for lighter cases just to help out, but even then I'm not a doctor…
Yeah, I have news for you ... I'm slapping my CPAP on any family member in a medical crisis where their O2 is bottoming out (I have o2 monitor too .. cheap from amazon) that potentially may be coming. If they are unable to breathe and we can't get them medical help/ventilated, it is no brainer. Here is my experience: CPAP (actual APAP) for a several years now. Godsend for me. Don't even nap without it. In addition to…
Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator
#134For those of us outside the US/EU, can someone explain about the change in tone here on HN ? There was a similar post a few weeks back and top-voted comments were uniformly scornful about such DIY medical equipment, and about how a ventilator was just one component in the ICU ecosystem. Now, though, there is a complete 180 ? What gives ? There is also the question of supply-side issues - uCs and IC boards are overwhe…
Without the threat of an overwhelmed healthcare system, why worry about a DIY ventilator? It would comfortably register as SEP (Someone Else's Problem) on most people's radar given the complexity of the rat's nest of regulation around the industry. With the crisis being what it is, however, you suddenly have a very interesting optimization problem, with very high stakes.
I can't fault folks for at least trying; and at the end of the day, who knows, someone may make something better/more efficient/cheaper/reliable/good enough to help. You'll never know if you don't try.
Just remember: do your research, learn why the current state of the art is what it is first, then make sure you can justify any design alteration you make in your particular implementation, then consult a regulator. They are there to either help or to specifically be part of whether or not your design is good enough given the logistical shape of the field.
That doesn't mean everyone go spam the FDA at once, mind. You don't want to DDoS the regulatory pipeline. If you're serious about it though, and willing to jump through the hoops in hope of being able to provide an alternative just in case; do so. Note it doesn't hurt to put a little more strain on the regulatory infrastructure as well. It helps the regulator to justify innovating how they can do their job more efficiently to!
Then, once you have regulator buy-in, go to your investors, and make the case for getting some mass production spun up, or figure out whether your job is done in the sense you're more of a design person, and less of an implementer, and get your design to those who can run with it.
This is the magic of the market at work! Not some arbitrage scheme, but an honest to God shift toward creating a greater supply capability to fill increased demand.
Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator
#135For those of us outside the US/EU, can someone explain about the change in tone here on HN ? There was a similar post a few weeks back and top-voted comments were uniformly scornful about such DIY medical equipment, and about how a ventilator was just one component in the ICU ecosystem. Now, though, there is a complete 180 ? What gives ? There is also the question of supply-side issues - uCs and IC boards are overwhe…
HN has attracted a younger crowd over the last couple years. They have a tendency of expressing and voting with their emotions.
In fact, there is a much greater danger in abolishing emotion in its entirety from your decision making process period. It is very easy to end up in a situation where you create more problems than you created a solution for because you didn't take into account the fact you're dealing with other human beings. A practice famous for requiring good interpersonal communication; something dependent on being able to see things from another point of view.
Also, let them. The truly novel solutions tend to be hiding in places no one bothers looking because we're trying to take the rational structures have, and work backward to a solution whereby we can use as much of what we already have in place to make what we want. Working from a dearth of preconceived notions can lead to genuine innovation in some cases.
If it can get you a helicopter, it can get you a ventilator.
Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator
#136Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because that manufacturer is not a monopoly, if they won’t produces, other will. Also, government is much less effective at producing things than private companies.
Is there actual evidence for this? That governments aren't as effective at producing things. This gets bandied about a lot but I'm not sure it's true. I think governments can be highly effective at producing things.
Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Yet they somehow beat the US to space. Somehow? With captured German rocket scientists. Same as USA.
They actually didn’t. German rocket scientists were smart people and they surrendered to US to avoid horror of dealing with NKVD. That said, there are reasons why USSR was first in space. For example, USSR deliberately ignored human life cost. In particular, they seriously considered first human flight to be a failure, so they announced it publicly only after Gagarin landed successfully.
Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator
#139This probably should have gone on the thread about flattening the curve not being enough. But. Where is the core team of 12 people plus 108 collaborators that should have been assembled a month and a half ago to figure out how to retune US manufacturing to start producing stripped down ICU beds and the supplies needed to keep them operational? This game is easy. The parameters are well understood. You could assign th…
HI! I’m a robotics engineer with mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, Linux and embedded programming skills, and I have 8 3D printers at home including two Prusa printers, a high resolution resin printer, and a large format printer. I’d really like to help! But there’s no central organization for this. I think we have to quickly organize ourselves! If anyone has any ideas please add them here in these hack…
Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator
#140This probably should have gone on the thread about flattening the curve not being enough. But. Where is the core team of 12 people plus 108 collaborators that should have been assembled a month and a half ago to figure out how to retune US manufacturing to start producing stripped down ICU beds and the supplies needed to keep them operational? This game is easy. The parameters are well understood. You could assign th…
Hello from Montreal, Canada! My employers are industrial equipment dealers who remember WW2, and the pivoting of industrial production that it took to win the war. We can still make a major difference if we are able to manufacture open source ventilators en masse. What am I doing about it? First I'm reaching out to the engineering departments of two major academic institutions to find local engineering leads that can…