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Not being an asshole will make you more money

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Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#131

Post by listsfrin »

pc86 wrote: post #58
seanhunter wrote: post #5

I have an example. In a previous role was in a position where we were negotiating a large-ish (>1M USD) multi-year contract when our client asked us to also do a proof of concept about some topic. It was just 1 week or 2 weeks so I said it would be free but because of various regulatory stuff we needed a contract in place. I was dealing with the same purchasing lawyer on both contracts. The process was super-standard…

Except this has been tried before and they typically end in one of three outcomes: 1) It was a mistake and it doesn't go to court. 2) It was intentional and it doesn't go to court because the attorney, while still being a piece of shit, understands what option 3 is. 3) It was intentional, it goes to court, and you produce the email evidence showing the attorney agreed to changeset N then sent along changeset N-1, and…

* if you have the money and the people prepared for 3)

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#132

Post by angarg12 »

I don't own a business, but I have encountered these behaviours at a smaller scale.

Now I think about this situation as a variation of the prisoners dilemma. If both parties play nice, each one gets a smaller payoff. If one is an asshole and the other is nice, the asshole gets a bigger payoff (by shafting the nice party). This article proposes that being nice is beneficial for all parties in the long term. That holds true also in the prisoners dilemma, if the game repeats over time.

Now, why do people still act that way? One option, as this article presumes, is that people are simply not aware that is the best option in the long term.

The second, most insidious option, is that they are aware, and do it in purpose. Maybe the world is still big enough that you can play a first game with different people until your fame catches up. Maybe the payoff for being an asshole is so high that a single win is enough to retire.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#133

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

illumanaughty wrote: post #74
commandlinefan wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you could come up with a good definition, it would still be a silly assertion. He’s wrong: not being an asshole won’t make you more money. Being an asshole will also not make you more money. How nice or not nice you are to other people is almost entirely unrelated to how much money you make.

It's not a silly assertion, it's just that you've taken silly things away from this article. He's asserting that if you're too self interested / lack empathy you will hurt yourself in the long run.

It's ludicrous, not just silly. People are talking here like this is a study that can be verified.

It is a random person ranting and completely subjective.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#134

Post by hcnews »

praptak wrote: post #40
jacquesm wrote: post #6

Most of the billionaires are assholes and/or criminals with a couple of noteworthy exceptions. So maybe not being an asshole will get you ahead in the middle but it won't get you all the way to the top of the foodchain. So this is solid advice, but unfortunately the role models are exactly those people that didn't follow this sort of advice. Microsoft, Amazon, Oracle, Apple, Google and Facebook all would not have bee…

I think most people would agree that Google founders were nice guys before (and even for some time after) they became ultra rich.

As an ex-googler, Google was mostly nice and virtuous till Larry/Sergey/Eric were at helm. Things started changing when Ruth joined Alphabet, there was deeper focus on investor returns etc. Soon after that CEO role was transferred to Sundar.

However, I have to qualify this by saying that I didn't ever work in Ads. And this is a common day-to-day googler's view who didn't know anything that went on in the executive land (e.x. Andy Rubin)

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#135

Post by Ididntdothis »

swat535 wrote: post #122
Ididntdothis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a common negotiation strategy to be a complete ass and wearing people down. A lot of people will give in just to keep the peace. It also works to ask for more concessions right before closing the deal. You just have to be shameless. I think that’s why sociopaths tend to do well in business.

The only time you can afford to have this behaviour is when you have leverage over the other party either by connections, dependencies or assets. People often forget that without leverage being rude will get you nowhere. Try this at work tomorrow and I bet you in no time your manager will show you the door. If both parties are on equal terms when it comes to negotiation power then it will either turn into a pissing c…

I often think that bullies get a lot of perceived leverage. They may not have real leverage but they intimidate people.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#136

Post by Ericson2314 »

airstrike wrote: post #117
Ericson2314 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this is standard American bullshit.

That's a really prejudiced and unwarranted view of Americans. If anything it says more about your biases and prejudices than it does about one nation.

I am American?

I am saying that as an American, one that works in America, and from my subjective experience working in b2b and consulting jobs, the business culture around me is full of contractual bullshit.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#137

Post by xwdv »

ta1234567890 wrote: post #125
AnatolyPetrova wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So did this backfire for this CEO? I assume that he never got the full amount of the note back but he possibly could have if he extended the note.

You are correct. He most likely would have gotten his money back, even without renewing the note, had he accepted a payment plan. Instead, he chose to start a (very costly) legal fight. So far he's probably out $100k+ in legal fees and looking to spend $100-200k more in the new personal lawsuit. The original note was for $250k. I don't think he's ever going to recover the full amount of money he's put into this (not…

Why would he make it so personal? What did you guys do to him?

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#138

Post by Jommi »

listsfrin wrote: post #131
pc86 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this has been tried before and they typically end in one of three outcomes: 1) It was a mistake and it doesn't go to court. 2) It was intentional and it doesn't go to court because the attorney, while still being a piece of shit, understands what option 3 is. 3) It was intentional, it goes to court, and you produce the email evidence showing the attorney agreed to changeset N then sent along changeset N-1, and…

* if you have the money and the people prepared for 3)

This point only pertains in places with a poisonous legal system, such as US or UK.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#139

Post by aphextron »

jacquesm wrote: post #6

Most of the billionaires are assholes and/or criminals with a couple of noteworthy exceptions. So maybe not being an asshole will get you ahead in the middle but it won't get you all the way to the top of the foodchain. So this is solid advice, but unfortunately the role models are exactly those people that didn't follow this sort of advice. Microsoft, Amazon, Oracle, Apple, Google and Facebook all would not have bee…

> Fortunately we also have Woz and a couple of others like him to balance things out a bit.

Except Woz ended up a low digit millionaire, and Jobs a multi-billionaire. Hard work simply doesn't pay off the way being a sociopath does in our society.

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